Battery Flat

[Keith]

Hello, me again...Cold morning, day 4 of owning this car......Battery Flat   The battery was new in jan this year, it's a Lion 70 Ah 610 CCA, is this suitable for this car? I've got to wait until the battery is charged before I can see if the alternator is at fault, or I have a drain...... Hopefully the battery's not man enough

 

 

[RichardM]

Redtop batteries (AGM) tend to be 810 /60Ah - but your battery should cope though not ideal, but if you have left her idle for a couple of days you may have encountered the dreaded parasitic drain (masses of previous posts on this topic)..Check this (carefully), after charging your battery with a muti-meter (set on Amps range) by disconnecting the battery negative lead and connect the meter in series (negative terminal on the battery post, positive on the earth lead with the meter leads placed in the correct sockets (if necessary). Ensure doors etc are shut, set the interior lights selector to permanently off (most down position) and strap a clamp on the bonnet-open microswitch. Wait a couple of minutes for the system to complete it's check cycles and then see how much current the system is pulling. If it's higher than (50mA ?) you have a problem. There are lots of problems reported with the audio amplifier.. including mine, I 'solved' mine temporarily by pulling the audio fuse and shoving it back if I go on  a long journey. 

[RichardM]

Thought I'd drop this in from the manual...

IGNITION-OFF DRAW TEST
The term Ignition-Off Draw (IOD) identifies a normal condition where power is being drained from the battery with the ignition switch in the Off position. A
normal vehicle electrical system will draw from fifteen to twenty-five milliamperes (0.015 to 0.025 ampere) with the ignition switch in the Off position,
and all non-ignition controlled circuits in proper working order. Up to twenty-five milliamperes are needed to enable the memory functions for the Powertrain
Control Module (PCM), digital clock, electronically tuned radio, and other modules which may vary with the vehicle equipment.
A vehicle that has not been operated for approximately twenty-one days, may discharge the battery to an inadequate level. When a vehicle will not be
used for twenty-one days or more (stored), remove the IOD fuse from the Integrated Power Module
(IPM). This will reduce battery discharging.
Excessive IOD can be caused by:
² Electrical items left on.
² Faulty or improperly adjusted switches.
² Faulty or shorted electronic modules and components.
² An internally shorted generator.
² Intermittent shorts in the wiring.
If the IOD is over twenty-five milliamperes, the problem must be found and corrected before replacing a battery. In most cases, the battery can be
charged and returned to service after the excessive IOD condition has been corrected.

(1) Verify that all electrical accessories are off. Turn off all lamps, remove the ignition key, and close all doors. If the vehicle is equipped with an illuminated
entry system or an electronically tuned radio, allow the electronic timer function of these systems to automatically shut off (time out). This may take
up to twenty minutes. 

(2) Disconnect the battery negative cable.
(3) Set an electronic digital multi-meter to its highest amperage scale. Connect the multi-meter between the disconnected battery negative cable terminal
clamp and the battery negative terminal post. Make sure that the doors remain closed so that the illuminated entry system is not activated. The multimeter
amperage reading may remain high for up to three minutes, or may not give any reading at all while set in the highest amperage scale, depending
upon the electrical equipment in the vehicle. The multi-meter leads must be securely clamped to the battery negative cable terminal clamp and the battery
negative terminal post. If continuity between the battery negative terminal post and the negative cable terminal clamp is lost during any part of the IOD
test, the electronic timer function will be activated and all of the tests will have to be repeated.
(4) After about three minutes, the high-amperage IOD reading on the multi-meter should become very low or non existent, depending upon the electrical
equipment in the vehicle. If the amperage reading remains high, remove and replace each fuse or circuit breaker in the Integrated Power Module (IPM), one
at a time until the amperage reading becomes very low, or non existent. Refer to the appropriate wiring information for complete Integrated Power Module
fuse, circuit breaker, and circuit identification. This will isolate each circuit and identify the circuit that is the source of the high-amperage IOD. If the
amperage reading remains high after removing and replacing each fuse and circuit breaker, disconnect the wire harness from the generator. If the amperage
reading now becomes very low or non existent, (Refer to 8 - ELECTRICAL/CHARGING - DIAGNOSIS AND TESTING) for the proper charging system diagnosis
and testing procedures. After the high-amperage IOD has been corrected, switch the multi-meter to progressively lower amperage scales and, if necessary,
repeat the fuse and circuit breaker remove-and-replace process to identify and correct all sources of excessive IOD. It is now safe to select the lowest milliampere
scale of the multi-meter to check the low amperage IOD.
CAUTION: Do not open any doors, or turn on any electrical accessories with the lowest milliampere scale selected, or the multi-meter may be damaged.
(5) Allow twenty minutes for the IOD to stabilize and observe the multi-meter reading. The low-amperage IOD should not exceed twenty-five milliamperes
(0.025 ampere). If the current draw exceeds twenty five milliamperes, isolate each circuit using the fuse and circuit breaker remove-and-replace process in
Step 4. The multi-meter reading will drop to within the acceptable limit when the source of the excessive current draw is disconnected. Repair this circuit as required;

[bignev]

Well done for finding that write up instructions pal!! But yes the Lion is a eurocarparts cheapo. Had one on my Subaru Outback when I bought it, 55ah, 480 cold cranking amps. In fairness to it, it lasted nearly 3 years before it gave a problem, but the Subaru is petrol. Anyhow, the new one is 65ah, 580 cca, and you can't half tell the difference on starting up!

[maxcaddy]

Richard, Nev, spot on with your answers, but even a cheapo battery with some charge will/should turn it over.

Most likely there's a drain issue going on which the previous owner tried to address by fitting a new battery, clearly without success.

On a 15+ year old vehicle, I would suggest simply fitting a 'battery isolator' like this  Car Battery Switch Isolator Terminal Quick Cut-off Disconnect Master 12V 24V New | eBay  which should solve his problem 

 

 

[bignev]

Yep at only a few months old ot shouldn't have died......

Bur as qinteq used to say - its a lifestyle and usage type result. Too many starts and not enough run time will take it right down, and as you say if it's git that drain as well its got a problem!

[Keith]

Sorry I've been away for a while and thanks for your input, I think Maxcaddy has hit the nail on the head. I've followed RichardM's instructions with the testing on the Amp side i'm at 1.84Amps so somethings wrong, pulled all the fuses and relay's no changes with the reading , what's next chaps

[Keith]

Reading this about the amp in the back i'd thought I better take a look. found a power lead about 8 foot long going to some sort of USB plug that was rusty and bloated, scotch blocked to the amp power lead, so that could be a lot of the drain (no fuse to be found anywhere). Next the towing socket....all scotch blocked again so this might be another source of the drain. Had enough for today so I ordered Tow bar bypass relay for Cambus vehicles. I'll see if I can do another test in the morning. ( I've also ordered the  Car Battery Switch Isolator Terminal Quick Cut-off) Belt and Bracers

 

[ZombieRodeo]

On 5/10/2022 at 4:17 PM, Keith said:

Reading this about the amp in the back i'd thought I better take a look. found a power lead about 8 foot long going to some sort of USB plug that was rusty and bloated, scotch blocked to the amp power lead, so that could be a lot of the drain (no fuse to be found anywhere). Next the towing socket....all scotch blocked again so this might be another source of the drain. Had enough for today so I ordered Tow bar bypass relay for Cambus vehicles. I'll see if I can do another test in the morning. ( I've also ordered the  Car Battery Switch Isolator Terminal Quick Cut-off) Belt and Bracers

 

I bought one of those battery isolators but the negative cable on my Voyager wouldn't fit on it

[Keith]

Just a follow up, I've taken out a lot of bodged wiring (rear view camera, towbar electrics) replaced them with dash cam (front and back) a relay for the towbar, added a parrot hands free (phone and music player) and the amps dropped to 800ma. The fuse 12v out Ign/ Batt was in the ignition, so I swapped it to battery now the amps are down to a little under 400ma - That'll do for me