Alternator Help

[jonusbonus]

Hi guys, I'm not all that good a mechanic so please bear with me.

 

 

Firstly, thanks for all your great info on here. I've already done the thermostat mod and the button mod so.... Many thanks.

 

I chose a battery recommended on here, but alas 2 months in it has stitched me up. This is no discredit to anyone. I had a hunch it was going duff and tried my luck and lost. MY fault !!

My battery seems to have gone short and now the alternator isn't putting anything out.

When it went wrong I got a warning in the display saying the system was about to shut down. I should have been quicker turning it off!

 

Is the alternator fused anwhere?

 

Most importantly:  I test drove the car with a charged battery and no working alternator but it wouldn't change gear. It would do reverse and 'D' but wouldn't change up when approx 35mph.

 

-I'm very concerned that if I go to the trouble of fixing the alternator, I'm going to find the solenoid pack is gone. This would be beyond repair for me.

-Is that normal for no alt? I mean.. no one maybe has done this before but does the system 'know' that there's no alt and hence doesn't engage things?

Could the shorted battery smoke the solenoid pack?

One last question..  Is it hard to change the Alternator and what's roughly involved.?  Can I blag the new one in without messing with the tensioner etc and the will the cheap £80 ones on ebay be ok?

 

Any help gratefully received. I'm supposed to be going on my only camping trip this year at the weekend!! ARRRGH.

 

 

 

[RichardM]

I don't know whether this is helpful or leading you up the garden path; Firstly my old bus is a 2007 Diesel GV. Today whilst picking up some items from the local electrical wholesaler the GV wouldn't start - not unusual so gave her a burst of Quickstart and brum brum but after a couple of miles I noticed the voltage reading (have a cheap & very useful voltmeter plugged into the cig. socket) was 11.3 (this is whilst driving whereas it's normally around the 12.9 to 13.3 ish; as I continued the voltage dropped quicker than the fuel gauge down to around 11.1 and then the gearbox decided to go into limp mode i.e. it wouldn't change up. After a couple of miles dash lights started lighting up at random, then the speedo died shortly after followed by the tacho, shortly after and 800 yards from home the engine followed suit - amazing how heavy the steering is without the servo helping out.

I have never had an electrical problem with the car before (lots of starting issues)... Don't know what's wrong yet will get the fluke out tomorrow and investigate but to summarise low voltage does appear to restrict your choice of gears to 1.

[jonusbonus]

Thanks Richard

 

That is actually VERY reassuring! I have got hold of an alternator today from a breaker and paid quite a lot for a battery. You are building my confidence that the gearbox is going to be ok, so thanks!

I have had a dig on here and perhaps you should try what I'm going to: To remove the exiter cable from the alternator and see if the red charge warning LED on the dash lights.

-I think This seems to indicate that the computerised alternator control is ok and points towards the alternator being at fault.

It would seem from previous posts that having continuity on the alternator is no proof it works i.e 'shorted turns' might be in play.

[RichardM]

Right, after a (very) perfunctory check on the old girl after charging the battery (12.44 volts), started her and measured the volts again (12,1); slapped a current meter across the alternator o/p - sweet bugger all. Also noted a whine from the alternator that I don't think was there last time I opened the bonnet. Based on this wealth of information I am going to get a new alternator (£80++ from ebay) - don't know how good these are but it's as cheap as a couple of hours at the garage! I have checked the error codes (key dance) and got the following :-

P0620 - Generator control malfunction .. ha 

P1651 - MIL / Diagnostic lamp ????

0204   injector cct #4

0203  injector cct #3

 

.. pretty sure 0204 etc due to the engine dying with no voltage and are irrelevant, ditto for 1651 ~ anyway until I get the major problem sorted I'ii assume they are all generated by the cpu having a nervous breakdown.

 

Please let us know how you get on.

[RichardM]

Just an addendum to the above;

 

P0620 - CRV specific

P0620 Generator Field Control MALF Open Circuit

Generator Field Control MALF Short Circuit

Generator Field Control MALF BatteryVoltage Too High

Generator Field Control MALF BatteryVoltage Too Low

Generator Field Control MALF Charging Volts Too Low

Generator Field Control MALF Unstable Current

Generator Field Control MALF Battery Voltage deviation Too High

Generator Field Control MALF Battery Voltage deviation Too Low

 

so could be something or due to battery dying !

Edited August 10, 2021 by RichardM

[jonusbonus]

I measured the alternator ohms to the battery and had continuity. Apparently there's a fusible line that can blow. I then ran the engine after I pulled off the ALT (2-wire) exiter connector, which is difficult to get off. You push the red tag down with a screwdriver and wiggle! This made the charge warning/ battery light come on. Putting it back in made it go out after a few seconds. This is a good sign that the computer's ok apparently.

Still No volts coming direct from the alternator. I then swapped the alternator out and all was well.

I then test drove and all the gears work again, so RESULT! 

 

I didn't do any key dancing as I've never been able to get it to work.

 

Thanks for your help! Good luck with yours!!!

 

I haven't checked, but apparently the exiter when running right should have 5 ish volts on one lead and 14 odd on the other. The 5 volts is really PWM but it's what the meter sees.

Had I checked it with the duff alternator it probably would have been no volts and 11.8V (battery dependent)

I will stand corrected on this though!

 

Oh yes... on the old one the clutch was visibly slipping if you watched the pulley end of the alternator. I don't know if this was due to any shorted turns causing load/ mag-drag (have I made this term up?)

or just the clutch being duff. 

Certainly the clutch was squeeky and rough feeling compared to the newish replacement.

Ebay seemed to think my van was incompatible with any 80 quid alternators, because it seemed to think I had a 163 bhp version when I didn't. 

What was interesting was that the second hand alt paperwork had the VIN of the doner vehicle logged on it,

and it clearly showed it was from the same engine type as mine i.e the 8th and 10th digits of the VIN were 5 & 7. This means, if they all have this kind of data,  that you can ask the breaker about the VIN to be sure you're getting a match, if you can't be arsed to take the old one out first to see the part no.

 

Good luck!

[jonusbonus]

Oh yes.. the second hand ebay ones in Newry and Southall... I don't know if they're the right type, but if you put them on your watchlist and then dither a while, you'll get an auto offer sometime later to buy either for £35!

[RichardM]

Well, thanks for the info. Glad to hear everything's tickity-boo with yours.

I have ordered the £80.00 Chinese thingamy, the part number they quote is correct, just have to wait until Friday to see if it fits!

I didn't want to buy second hand, mainly because of the mechanical clutch and potential failure .. hopefully a new (Chinese) one will be better but we will see.

By the way do you know how to release the tension on the belt to get the alternator off ???

 

Cheers

 

Richard

[soupstone]

Think I paid around £90-£100 for a reconditioned one when I still had my GV, which included return postage for mines (otherwise there was a surcharge).
Similar issues beforehand, random lights, random issues, then cut out and wouldn't start again. 
 Belt tension, when you remove one of the bolts, and loosen the others, does alternator not just pivot?

Edited August 13, 2021 by soupstone

[RichardM]

Alternator arrived this morning, phoned my friendly garage and they popped int in this afternoon ! That problem solved, charging at 13,5 volts all sound on the electrical side... only problem is on kick down during the journey home (nine miles) the engine died and refused to start until bribed with Quickstart juice... got home switched off and tried again, no start .. this love hate relationship is turning into a hate hate relationship... have been reliably informed the HP fuel pump is probably the culprit but at circa £1000.00 worried that it may not solve the problem & a grand down. .. ????

[maxcaddy]

£1000 ouch, ouch, ouch, that would be enough to have mine be on it's way to the great scrappy in the sky 

 

Surely as they are a popular engine for many models, especially campervans, there will be some local 'diesel' expert who can check your pumps output as a first step  .

[RichardM]

Possibly but have not been able to find one yet (Old Leake is located 20 miles from nowhere), Boston is closer but that really doesn't count.

I know (painfully) that it's a lot of money but every time you buy a 2nd hand vehicle you might as well put a bet on the old grey nag in the 2:30 at Epson.

Funny thing is went out this morning, twisted the key and up she fired.... Random(ish)  faults are the worst kind...even if you know the source error (P1130)

I am seriously leaning towards a new injector pump or buying quick start wholesale.

[maxcaddy]

Okay, not whishing to hijack this post as my knowledge of Alternators is next to zero other than many years ago I had a doggy Alternator tested in a 'Lucas' test shop to say it was the 'Diode' ? which was only a 1/3rd of the cost of a new one. Which I then bought and fitted (2 wires) for it then not to work and the shop say that something else was wrong, which couldn't have been diagnosed until the Diode fault had been cleared. Consequently from that day on, whenever it arose I have simply replace a dodgy one with a new/rebuilt one, and while I haven't change my GV one, it looks to be a very straightforward job.

 

That said, my GV does have an Alternator fault whereby the battery drains after about 3 days which I think is a 'leak' through the Alternator. My solution was to buy a Battery terminal isolator for a few £s off of eBay, which other than the slight inconvenience has worked well for nearly 2 years

 

So onto RichardM's issue, when I say pump's output, it's the 'Injection System I'm talking about, inasmuch as it's common rail diesel CRD implying that the 'injection system' is always pressurised ready for each injector to fire. If the system is not pressurising it's either the common rail (high) pressure pump letting by or the lift pump letting by (could be same pump) (I'm not that knowledgeable). Or, it's allowing/letting in air when at rest, which then needs purging on starting from such as a fuel rail leak, or leaky (perished) feedbacks from the Injectors, or leaky filter, etc.

 

There is also a bizarre fault mode (on some cars) whereby it messes about starting depending on whether you have the car facing uphill or downhill  .

 

Other indications of fuel delivery issues are how well its running and (especially) for starting how much and what smoke comes out the back, although in your case the easystart will make that diagnosis difficult   .

[RichardM]

We seem to have moved away from alternators (problem solved with £80 ish alternator) and onto what appears to be the major problem with the GVs or this 2.8 CRD engine in particular i.e. fuel related issues. I have had problems ever since buying the old girl  (Dec 2019), I think I am going to bite the bullet and get a new pump, problem is I am not 100% convinced it is the pump, if it was I would expect a more consistent fault ? I think I'll open a new (repeat) thread on this issue.

 

[RichardM]

Just an update on that £80.00 alternator I bought from ebay. It's great. Waited till now 'cause I wanted to make sure it lasted more than a couple of days. It works great, charges at 14.2 when the battery's down at 12.2 volts before starting ( I do leave her for a few days sometimes), then goes down as the battery charges. (I do not have the temp mod).

The advert says 160Amp which concerned me originally but it certainly does the job and doesn't appear to be overcharging the battery (Optima Redtop [AGM]).

 

Just an adjunct on the battery.

When I bought the car the battery wasn't charging properly so bought a new (as above) battery. With the poor starting also bought one of these magic chargers that repairs duff batteries. Plugged it into the old battery and after a couple of days and a couple of repair mode attempts Voila! battery was back up to charge and holding charge. -> It now sits in the old girl with the new one powering the bought for spares one until I get around to changing them back.