300C Diesel Non Starting Issues

[Lord300]

Hiya how's everybody doing hope your keeping well and your pride and joys.

 

We're in a bit of a pickle at the moment with my dad's 300c diesel his pride and joy.

Over the past year my old man's been having a starting issues with his motor as the months have gone by it's getting worse and worse till a few days ago it will turn but not start at all

 

Before all this it would take a lot of effort to get it going cold starting wise but once it did when the engine was warm it much easier too fire again after at least a day without use it would be a pig to start again.

 

Parts replaced battery

Crankshaft sensor

Fuel filter

Non return valve

Glow plug module

 

I would really like too get this car running again for my dad he loves this car and he doesn't want too give up on her I can't blame him it's a damn good machine next too my ford escort estate the 300c is like a battle ship next too it lol.

 

Any help and advise would be greatly appreciated.

 

Forgot too note also did Clean and wire brushed all the contacts on the battery and connections just to be sure that it's creating a proper contact just to make sure it's nothing simple.

[jonnyjeep]

Assuming the fuel pump is priming when you switch ignition to 'on' & you have good fuel pressure & the glow plug light goes out, try flicking the key to start & then let go (don't hold it). In cold weather, this method of starting works for me everytime on the CRD 

 

Apart from this, then maybe new glow plugs ?....But your only way forward really is having a diagnostic scan to determine the actual cause rather than just replacing parts

[AngelsEnvy]

I hate to say this, after you have replaced so many parts, but you will probably find that it is the 'starter relay' in the fuse box under the bonnet and this is a known fault with all variants of the 300, though nobody knows why it goes.

 

If you swap the relay for the horn or wiper relay, which one don't you need most, and the issue resolves itself then that was the problem if not join the club of those who are suffering the same problem. Next issue is where to get a replacement relay? I have been unable to locate any new ones anywhere other than the USA and they won't ship outside the US! I've also tried Vauxhall dealers, Saab suppliers, even Holden in Aussie with no luck at all.

 

Part number is - 05269988AA

 

Hope that info helps and if you find the part please let me know as none of the UK 300 sites seem to have them new or know what I'm talking about, which is mad, though you can get used ones from China via e-Bay but who knows if they work? Delivery time is also horrendous.

 

Cheers

 

As an important edit - Please make sure you swap the right relay as one of them operates the computer and all that entails. If you get it wrong it brings with it a whole host of issues you don't want to get involved with. Depending on the layout of the box under the bonnet and year it is the relay that is separate from all the rest with just two fuses next to it. It can be bridged with a paper clip or similar but not an option I would recommend.

Edited February 10, 2021 by AngelsEnvy

[jonnyjeep]

Hi AngelsEnvy, wouldn't a faulty starter relay prevent the starter motor from turning the engine ? I thought that Lord300 mentioned that the engine was turning, but not starting, so I assumed it wasn't a starter problem.

 

As regards to relays in general, I've always found that the main problem with relays is microscopic cracks in solder joints that stop them working. Usually you can pry off the cover & with a magnifying glass, start looking for cracked solder, usually on the circuit board pins. I've always found that, after a re-solder, relays have started working properly again 

Edited February 11, 2021 by jonnyjeep

[AngelsEnvy]

Interesting, of course I can only speak for my own experience here but as I understood it the relay controls both the signal that is sent to the starter and to the immobiliser and thus would dictate whether the signal is read correctly to allow starting ! As an intermittent fault and based on that idea I swapped out the starter relay for one of the others, in my case the horn, and the issue went away, car started each and every time, but as soon as I returned the original relay, back came the starting problem as described by Lord300

 

I just thought that rather than Lord300 keep buying expensive parts and spending large amounts of time and effort removing fitting them just give it a try and if it fixes it then fantastic if not its back to the drawing board?

 

My problems began last summer and I wasted money on a new battery before I looked at the connections on the starter (earth) in case it was iffy, I knew it wasn't an alternator issue and as it worked 90% of the time with no problems I didn't think it was fuel or such like. I looked at the battery in the keys, they were fine so it seemed to me it just wasn't communicating with the car. What you get when you insert the key is everything lights up and you have full power so the auto headlights, radio, memory seats, mirrors etcetera all work perfectly but the car has nothing other than the solenoid click, turn the key off and back on again and most times it fires up and away you go ! Over time the issue gets worse and eventually the car just won't start. I'm awaiting some new relay units from the States, not going to get it through the MOT with no horn, but who knows when I'll get them, had never considered cracking them open and re soldering but it is worth a go, hell anything is, and if it's your second car or you can afford to have it off the road ! Lets face it, we all love these motors for the way they look and the interior size but they don't have the best build quality in the world. I may well give the solder idea a go and thanks for suggesting it.        

[BrownSugar]

Hi,

 

Have you changed the engine coolant temperature sensor (ECT)? You say that once warm it starts up fine.

 

I was having the opposite problem... started fine when cold, then when hot it wouldn't fire up, just turned over and over.

 

The ECT tells the Engine Management Unit whether the engine is hot or cold, then the EMU decides whether to go into cold start or hot start mode. If the ECT is knackered it will be giving the wrong information... it's like starting an old car without using the choke when cold... or using the choke when it's hot.

 

The Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) sensor is quite cheap, available from your local parts store, and is an easy swap (ten minutes). See if it works... it did for me.

 

Open the hood, remove the plastic cover and the sensor is on the top of the right bank about half way down... see pic below.

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by BrownSugar

[AngelsEnvy]

Hi AngelsEnvy, wouldn't a faulty starter relay prevent the starter motor from turning the engine ? I thought that Lord300 mentioned that the engine was turning, but not starting, so I assumed it wasn't a starter problem.

 

As regards to relays in general, I've always found that the main problem with relays is microscopic cracks in solder joints that stop them working. Usually you can pry off the cover & with a magnifying glass, start looking for cracked solder, usually on the circuit board pins. I've always found that, after a re-solder, relays have started working properly again 

Sorry jonnyjeep

You are right, re read the post and they clearly say its turning over so not the same issue at all. That'll teach me to read a little more carefully instead of just scanning text.

[AngelsEnvy]

Hi,

 

Have you changed the engine coolant temperature sensor (ECT)? You say that once warm it starts up fine.

 

I was having the opposite problem... started fine when cold, then when hot it wouldn't fire up, just turned over and over.

 

The ECT tells the Engine Management Unit whether the engine is hot or cold, then the EMU decides whether to go into cold start or hot start mode. If the ECT is knackered it will be giving the wrong information... it's like starting an old car without using the choke when cold... or using the choke when it's hot.

 

The Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) sensor is quite cheap, available from your local parts store, and is an easy swap (ten minutes). See if it works... it did for me.

 

Open the hood, remove the plastic cover and the sensor is on the top of the right bank about half way down... see pic below.

 

http://cdn.chryslerforum.co.uk/public/style_images/defraction/attachicon.gifcd8c83fd3d827095a59bd42d7f3d05d8.jpg

Good shout Brown Sugar, wish I'd thought of it when my starting troubles began. Now have one on order, just in case, you can never be underprepared. 

[AngelsEnvy]

Interesting, of course I can only speak for my own experience here but as I understood it the relay controls both the signal that is sent to the starter and to the immobiliser and thus would dictate whether the signal is read correctly to allow starting ! As an intermittent fault and based on that idea I swapped out the starter relay for one of the others, in my case the horn, and the issue went away, car started each and every time, but as soon as I returned the original relay, back came the starting problem as described by Lord300

 

I just thought that rather than Lord300 keep buying expensive parts and spending large amounts of time and effort removing fitting them just give it a try and if it fixes it then fantastic if not its back to the drawing board?

 

My problems began last summer and I wasted money on a new battery before I looked at the connections on the starter (earth) in case it was iffy, I knew it wasn't an alternator issue and as it worked 90% of the time with no problems I didn't think it was fuel or such like. I looked at the battery in the keys, they were fine so it seemed to me it just wasn't communicating with the car. What you get when you insert the key is everything lights up and you have full power so the auto headlights, radio, memory seats, mirrors etcetera all work perfectly but the car has nothing other than the solenoid click, turn the key off and back on again and most times it fires up and away you go ! Over time the issue gets worse and eventually the car just won't start. I'm awaiting some new relay units from the States, not going to get it through the MOT with no horn, but who knows when I'll get them, had never considered cracking them open and re soldering but it is worth a go, hell anything is, and if it's your second car or you can afford to have it off the road ! Lets face it, we all love these motors for the way they look and the interior size but they don't have the best build quality in the world. I may well give the solder idea a go and thanks for suggesting it.        

Update - 17 Feb 2021 - Gave the relay from the US and ECT sensor a swerve. US dealer wanted $38+tax for the first and $58+tax for the second. The ECT has been ordered here, via EU, for just £4.75 + pp the relay was donated by a former Jeep dealer for nowt. Thank you sir, you are a true gent.

[AngelsEnvy]

Hi,

 

Have you changed the engine coolant temperature sensor (ECT)? You say that once warm it starts up fine.

 

I was having the opposite problem... started fine when cold, then when hot it wouldn't fire up, just turned over and over.

 

The ECT tells the Engine Management Unit whether the engine is hot or cold, then the EMU decides whether to go into cold start or hot start mode. If the ECT is knackered it will be giving the wrong information... it's like starting an old car without using the choke when cold... or using the choke when it's hot.

 

The Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) sensor is quite cheap, available from your local parts store, and is an easy swap (ten minutes). See if it works... it did for me.

 

Open the hood, remove the plastic cover and the sensor is on the top of the right bank about half way down... see pic below.

 

http://cdn.chryslerforum.co.uk/public/style_images/defraction/attachicon.gifcd8c83fd3d827095a59bd42d7f3d05d8.jpg

Hi BrownSugar Anything I need to know about fitting the ECT? No need to disconnect any battery terminals or drain anything? Is it just a straight unbolt bolt up swap?  

[BrownSugar]

Hi,

 

That main dealer price for the ECT is daylight robbery. I ordered mine from my local parts store in Stevenage and it was less than five quid.

 

It's an easy swap... no need to disconnect the battery! It is in a slightly awkward place but no issues. Just be careful with the wiring... don't twist or stretch and pull.

 

Don't drain the coolant either.

 

When you find the sensor you will see it's held in place with an elongated circlip. Use a flat end screwdriver to release the circlip... careful you don't drop it. The sensor then pulls out. Disconnect it from the wiring and replace with the new one. The only fiddly bit is getting the circlip back on, just don't drop it.

 

For info NEVER disconnect the battery on these cars unless you absolutely have to. The result is loads of warning lights on the dash needing a diagnostic computer to reset them. There are lots of posts on this forum where people have had problems due to flat batteries or replacing old for new.

 

 

[BrownSugar]

Different engine but the same ECT and same procedure to swap it. The only difference is no coolant escaped on the Chrysler because the ECT is on the top of the engine, not on the side.

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FKerNw8fW20&feature=youtu.be

[AngelsEnvy]

Hi,

 

That main dealer price for the ECT is daylight robbery. I ordered mine from my local parts store in Stevenage and it was less than five quid.

 

It's an easy swap... no need to disconnect the battery! It is in a slightly awkward place but no issues. Just be careful with the wiring... don't twist or stretch and pull.

 

Don't drain the coolant either.

 

When you find the sensor you will see it's held in place with an elongated circlip. Use a flat end screwdriver to release the circlip... careful you don't drop it. The sensor then pulls out. Disconnect it from the wiring and replace with the new one. The only fiddly bit is getting the circlip back on, just don't drop it.

 

For info NEVER disconnect the battery on these cars unless you absolutely have to. The result is loads of warning lights on the dash needing a diagnostic computer to reset them. There are lots of posts on this forum where people have had problems due to flat batteries or replacing old for new.

 

 

Thanks for the info my man. I've had my 300 from new, some 14+ years now and know what the dealers are like, price wise, from bitter experience. I've been lucky, in general, with parts but have had a couple of issues, oil pipe over the ECM leaking and destroying it, mega money for the dealer to replace the box and pipe but replaced the standard pipe as soon as it was out of the dealers with a reinforced unit, once bitten twice shy. Always connect a slave unit whilst replacing the battery and so have had no issues. That annoying front end knock took me ages to track down but once I replaced the drop links with heavy duty/good quality ones no issues since. Over the years I've had no option but to do the work myself as nobody I would trust is prepared to undertake repairs! Seem to be scared because it's 'American' but let's face it, most of the engine kit is straight off of a Mercedes E Class so what's the issue? I have, over the years, replaced most of the front end suspension and steering parts/bushes and spent a bit of time drilling and fitting grease nipples to almost every part and that is proving to be well worth the effort but that bloody e brake is a nightmare at MOT times no matter how you adjust it or even if you replace the cables and fittings.Testers just will not accept that its a parking brake and not a hand brake and needs to be applied slowly and not by stamping on it to get a reading. Awaiting the sensor as I type but will test the original just to see if it is that! I hope so because I'd hate for it to be one or more of the injectors Once again thanks for the suggestion and the help. Be lucky..

[BrownSugar]

I've been looking for that front end knocking since I got the car. It passes the MOTs, I've had it checked over, each time they tell me nothing is worn. Replaced the anti roll bar bushes but still there. it only knocks when I'm driving slowly over a rough surface though. I'll try swapping the drop links.

Edited February 17, 2021 by BrownSugar

[AngelsEnvy]

I've been looking for that front end knocking since I got the car. It passes the MOTs, I've had it checked over, each time they tell me nothing is worn. Replaced the anti roll bar bushes but still there. it only knocks when I'm driving slowly over a rough surface though. I'll try swapping the drop links.

I had replaced the anti roll bar, upped it to US Police spec for the Charger, and had fitted poly bushes but still had the knock. I asked a mate, in Norfolk, if I could take the car over there as he had a lift with a shaker plate and low and behold up came the knock loud and clear with nothing at all showing as faulty when being checked by dealers. I fitted hefty uprated drop links and have never had another problem. My problems have always and still all stem from where I live, they are terrified of the 300c ! I have just been told by the spares shop they will not order the ECT and want nothing to do with Chrysler bits!!! Gave them the Merc part number ( I think is correct) and they still refused to order it for me?? WTF ! Now at a loss as can't get one locally and can't travel. Did you have a part number for the ECT only there seem to be many many variants on the EU parts suppliers. Any and all help would be most welcome as one garage only wants to replace the injectors and glow plugs and says the ECT is not going to be the problem. I've had this nonsense ever since I took delivery and at a later stage the Merc dealer ceased selling Chryslers.   

[BrownSugar]

Oh man! That's ridiculous... it's just a car not a spaceship. Standby....

[BrownSugar]

I actually bought two, one from www.gsfcarparts.com and one from www.wheelsmotorfactors.com

 

The part number from GSF is 000 905 61 02

 

The part number from Wheels is 929 ME 0450.

 

I'll try attaching some pics.

[BrownSugar]

I have no problem getting parts round here. However, the Cotswolds is a much nicer part of the world. Yin and Yang mate.

[AngelsEnvy]

I have no problem getting parts round here. However, the Cotswolds is a much nicer part of the world. Yin and Yang mate.

Listen, if you don't drive a Rangie here you are considered both poor and to have no taste at all.

[AngelsEnvy]

I actually bought two, one from www.gsfcarparts.com and one from www.wheelsmotorfactors.com

 

The part number from GSF is 000 905 61 02

 

The part number from Wheels is 929 ME 0450.

 

I'll try attaching some pics.

Fantastic my man I'll get onto the sites now and get a couple ordered. Worth having a spare and if not needed I'm always able to help out a local. Ah, bit of a problem, they no longer carry them! 

Edited February 17, 2021 by AngelsEnvy

[AngelsEnvy]

I have to assume your motor is a good few years newer than mine as they don't carry any parts for mine. I've dropped them an email and await a response. 

 

Mine is a 2006/7 model for reference. All the ECT's that came up were for 2010 or above. But thanks for trying..

[BrownSugar]

Give GSF a bell in the morning mate. I don't trust the website. They were very helpful on the phone. I called the Letchworth branch coz it's closest to me.

 

Wheels in Stevenage are good too but phone them, website not updated often enough.

[BrownSugar]

Mine is a 2008 SRT Design.

[BrownSugar]

Go to ebay and put "000 905 61 02" in the search. There's hundreds on there.

[AngelsEnvy]

Go to ebay and put "000 905 61 02" in the search. There's hundreds on there.

Thanks for that. I'll give them a ring in the morning and have asked a couple of sellers on e-Bay to confirm that the ones they are selling will fit mine. if I get a yes I'll buy a couple..

[AngelsEnvy]

Mine is a 2008 SRT Design.

Mine's a Lux. I bought it for the wife who had a back issue and couldn't get in and out of a Range Rover, too high, and liked the S-Class ease of entry but not the vehicle. Took her to see the 300c and after a test drive she loved it so bought one for her. It had all the nonsense on it as standard, 20 inch rims and the MyMusic HDD and every other extra it could possibly have. The bonus was GM were in dire straits financially and so I gave almost nothing for it. Lost the missus a couple of years ago but can't bring myself to sell it or let it go. Only got 69000 miles from new and as I said I've done all the servicing since the warranty ceased. Build quality may be rubbish, parts less than adequate but a charm you can't deny and for motorway use there aint many to beat it.