2.8 Crd Won't Start

[oldginger]

Hi everyone. Jumped in car last night to move it, turned over normally but would not start. I had been out in it earlier and all was well. My mechanic friend has had a look at it and it is fuelling ok. His reader only covers petrol models. I have no books so can someone explain the key dance procedure as we believe it could be an immobiliser issue. Any other ideas would be appreciated, thanks in anticipation, old ginger.

[QinteQ]

Eliminate the obvious. It has fuel, LP compression to filter/HP pump and full CCA crank. What's missing? SMIM SKREEM permission!. It will have the SKIM code in the BCM the SKREEM is only voltage, voltage is the tiny IGN to IPM to "trigger spade" on the top of the starter motor.

 

A DVOM will prove it in a second.

[oldginger]

Hi QinteQ your write up reminds me of my army days working with American technicians in the sixties. Their abbreviations used to bamboozle me but I guess your suggesting I check the power supply to the top of the starter motor. I have left a message for a local mobile auto electrician that I have used before so hopefully he will be in touch soon. Many neighbours and friends are offering help so supplies etc. are covered. Thanks to all contributors you've been very helpful. I hope this problem will be resolved soon. T.T.F.N. (still old school).

[QinteQ]

Hi QinteQ your write up reminds me of my army days working with American technicians in the sixties. Their abbreviations used to bamboozle me but I guess your suggesting I check the power supply to the top of the starter motor. I have left a message for a local mobile auto electrician that I have used before so hopefully he will be in touch soon. Many neighbours and friends are offering help so supplies etc. are covered. Thanks to all contributors you've been very helpful. I hope this problem will be resolved soon. T.T.F.N. (still old school).

Ditto mucker, boys company Pirbright 62, Then usual Knightsbridge, Chelsea, Windsor, then Kenya, Yemen and others before demob.

 

You could just take the black plaggie cover off engine block and see the spade connection with a torch. If it's connected it's sometimes just not 'making' a good enough connect. If you're getting a man in I suggest he spanners bolts and nips spade after cleaning etc, he'll know the full monty. Or any handy willing neighbour could do it.

 

Best of luck.

[oldginger]

Sorry for delay in update, busy with wife's illness. Car tech checked out car on Wednesday afternoon and just had to be the main ECU. He has sent it away to be repaired by a close mate whom he trusts. I will update when it is refitted. 

[bignev]

Hiya chaps! Do the Voyagers have a non return valve on the low pressure system on the way to the fuel filter?

 

I ask as last year my Renault van decided to be a bit of a naughty thing, and would wind over and not start on a couple of occasions. Giving it throttle made no difference. 

 

Called my breakdown service and they popped out and read no faults at all. Because it wasn't a problem with the electronics as it turns out.

 

Next time thankfully my brain quickly put together lots of the bits from this forum on some of the problems, came up with a fuel situation, and pumped the primer bulb on the inlet to the filter in the engine bay - quite high up I might add, well above the top of the engine by about 7" I reckon, took a couple of goes but then it chugged into life, got itself going and was fine while running. I got to my job, after 5 minutes went to move the van and it told me to bog off. 

 

After a few failed attempts we hit on this - with the aid of my mate, I pumped the primer bulb while he cranked it over, and it eventually chimed into life. Drove fine on the way home. 

 

New in line primer bulb / non return valve later and it was back to usual. I didn't touch anything else at all, so I can absolutely rule out any air leaks etc.

Edited September 9, 2020 by bignev

[QinteQ]

This is the uni Lucas fitted to my 05 nev

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Diesel-Primer-Pump-Lucas-Type-/192779554591

 

[bignev]

Ah, ok, I reckon the non return's part of that primer button assembly diaphragm.

 

I'm thinking that if @@RichardM is priming his frequently, then as you say something is causing it to "break the vacuum" in my plumbing terms to enable it to leak fuel back to the tank.

 

As a matter of interest, the rubber primer bulb (inc the new one) on my van isn't hard, I though I'd check it to see if it's any different to other times I have in years past, I can pump it probably 4 times before it feels properly firm, but it doesn't hesitate to start up without touching it.

 

So on my van, the fuel pressure from the primer, up into the filter housing, then out and down to the high pressure pump inlet on the engine isn't actually under pressure as such, but is completely full of fluid - diesel mostly  - that is then under suction when the engine is running.

 

I think it was you @@QinteQ who has pointed out before that the primer should and needs to go firm when it's used, or otherwise there's very likely a problem in the fuel system.

Edited September 10, 2020 by bignev

[gordy]

Well the primer button is a good answer as it was: a/like/don't say/please don't/ I will break free here and say "Virus". For about a good few months on here not long back, about every answer was: fuel filter housing cracks where wire goes in.. Or seal at filter letting air in. Or Button not hard when pressed. Or Air getting into button housing, diaghram possibly. Course battery was always easy answer. No answer yet, like one of my diy jobs that goes on and on. Come to think of it my cars MOT is up on the 10th of Sept. Edited September 10, 2020 by gordy

[RichardM]

Starting getting worse, now thinking the actual primer pump may be the cause or curse.... Trouble is where do I get the bits to overhaul it or where do I get a new one from ? I love this old bus, it's the only thing I've found that's big enough for me BUT I'm getting frustrated with the whole starting issue.. HELP>

[RichardM]

Sorry but just noted the link to ebay Lucas primer - is this what's fitted or does it require some mods for a 2007 CRD. On the issue of maintenance, is there a w/s manual for this specific engine. I downloaded a set for the Voyager and it is very sparse on diesels and mentions things that do not exist - like lift pumps etc. ? ? ?

[QinteQ]

See: http://oskin.ru/pub/chrysler-dodge/manuals/Service%20Manuals/2005_RG_Town&Country_Caravan_Voyager_Diesel_Versions_Include/

 

Includes 2.5+2.8crd's, the mk4 covers up to 07. You will see the diesel.pdf file. Best of luck.

[mechcanico]

On vehicles that do not have a electric submerged intank primer pumps , the main hp pump has a vaccum section built on to it , best way to check for air ingress is to 'clear pipe it up ' you break into the lines at the hp pump ... feed and return ...it is then possible to see the fuel flow and which way any air bubbles are migrating rather than randomly guessing at parts like i see on all owners forums .....have this mantra ...."what if i fit part X and it does not fix it then what ?? Test not guess .....everything is testable...you just have to have the knowledge how to and the correct kit .....if you do not have the correct kit then it just boils down to 'guess a part' till the customer runs out if money like i see nearly every day at work

[gordy]

Any answer to this ?