Flat Battery Again

[maxcaddy]

During this enforced period of lock down, I find the battery (which struggles when its not used regularly) really suffers as it's now a few days between use. Consequently top ups from the charger are the order of the day. 

 

However as an alternative I've now bought one of these :- 

 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universal-Quick-Release-Battery-Isolator-Car-Motorhome-Terminal-Clamp-12V-Fused/111036600160?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

with the aim that when I've used the car, and know I'm not going to use it for a while, I can stop the drain.

 

I did have something similar many moons ago on an old Landie, but this new one has a fused loop wire, the purpose of which I do not know, other than is it a bypass to keep the alarm powered ?

 

If anyone who knows what the wire is actually for, please let me know 

[03GVCRD]

Yes, the bypass is to keep an alarm powered or retain radio settings or anything else you connect it to. The problem is that this may still allow your battery to drain unless you connect it to a specific circuit that you know is not causing the drain.

 

Best to leave the bypass disconnected unless you are sure of the above.

 

Another reason for the bypass was to keep normal functions of the vehicle but if the starter was engaged then the bypass fuse would blow and the vehicle couldn't be started. Unless of course the thief could pop the bonnet and reconnect it

[QinteQ]

shelf fuse

http://www.chryslerforum.co.uk/topic/1503-flat-battery-help-needed/

https://www.chryslerforum.com/forum/chrysler-voyager-town-country-21/interest-those-getting-flat-batteries-20297/

[maxcaddy]

Tried fitting the Isolator to find it only fits to the narrower 'neg' terminal and not the 'pos' terminal, which I'm sure is different from before as I am now breaking the 'Earth' and not the supply . Anyway I suppose it does the same function, and it certainly 'Isolated' my battery  .

 

Not sure if there's any long term effects by not having a Battery powering the car inasmuch as Radio Codes, etc, but if it stops the inconvenience of finding the Battery flat when you east expect it, it'll be a job well done.

[maxcaddy]

Btw, thought about the 'shelf fuse' idea, but concluded it would be easier to spin a 'big knob' then delve into the Fuse Box every time I left it for a while. If the car were newer/worth more I would consider doing more, but as its on its last year or two I'm happy just to keep it running  .

[QinteQ]

Tried fitting the Isolator to find it only fits to the narrower 'neg' terminal and not the 'pos' terminal, which I'm sure is different from before as I am now breaking the 'Earth' and not the supply . Anyway I suppose it does the same function, and it certainly 'Isolated' my battery  .

 

Not sure if there's any long term effects by not having a Battery powering the car inasmuch as Radio Codes, etc, but if it stops the inconvenience of finding the Battery flat when you east expect it, it'll be a job well done.

I fitted a "big red key" about10 years ago. To the NEG terminal. It works fine to this day. A circuit is a circuit break = isolate.

 

I as you can see from my sig-line am 04-07. The code does exist I, it's unavailable to you in the BCM computer. Connect circuit and listen you will hear dozens of 'pings' on connection where the Pci BUS checks sensors/equipment/security and resets itself.

 

Best of luck.

[maxcaddy]

Well an interesting morning, after I raised the bonnet and tightened the isolated battery terminal, the alarm went off  . It didn't seem to matter what I pressed on the fob, or whether the battery was connected or not, it just wouldn't shut up .
 
By taking the fuse cover off and pulling out the fuses and relays it eventually stopped when the pink '30A CENTRAL' fuse was pulled. With everything else back in place except the pink 30A it all seems to run OK now, so I don't know what else that fuse covers or whether having it permanently out has any other effects ?
 
I'm optimistic Mr Qinteq has an answer ?

[bignev]

Don't know if you've tried this technique that I seem to remember worked on one car I had - 

 

Reconnect the battery, and put the key in the ignition all the way round (not trying to start) and eventually (a few seconds - seemed like ages) it recognised the key transponder. The LED light went out.

 

But if you have already had the key in, and the immobiliser light goes out, then sadly that probably won't work.

[QinteQ]

Bignev is correct.

 

Transponder scrim/screen protection. BCM-IPM-trigger wire-alarm-capacitor all linked to code in BCM.

(On chip) key

 

So car alarm won't stop/car won't start till BCM sends info to key in IGN "marry" again.

 

Short term charge battery fully and do bignev sequence.

 

Long term, warm summer less risk but gonna happen again Oct this year. Long term fix new battery. Not AGM but bog standard SLI. Optima "red top" 4.2 Spiral starter battery will slot straight in, ditto Power line 096 starter battery is much cheaper. Want more info just ask bud.

 

Just follow bignev sequence, but once it re-codes and works lock and unlock from key fob to remarry key fob to transponder. I would never trust any battery older than 36 months on any high-draw voyager. Best of luck.

[maxcaddy]

Wow many thanks Guys .

 

However what I was trying to ascertain was (because I have removed the 'pink 30A fuse'), what effect is there/will there be on the rest of the car if I were to carry on using it with the fuse permanently removed ?.

 

When I removed the Fuse (yesterday) to shut the Alarm up, the car started okay, I then went for a drive and it stopped and started okay, just been out now and it started okay, so it can't have anything to do with the immobiliser ?

 

Unfortunately I don't have a handbook/wiring diagram to know whats what 

[QinteQ]

BCM stores long/short term errors. If it's cleared the short term one you are probably ok. You can't clear long term without very expensive diagnostic anyway.

 

What I'd do is - with a charged battery is lock in normal way pull NEG cable for 20 min. Replace 30a fuse. Lock and unlock 3 times with FOB blipper. What happens with alarm ?

 

Option 1 - It's a PCi BUS no different to any computer. When the battery (computer) goes on again you will hear a series of clicks as it tests various differen relays etc. You 'should' then lock/unlock doors and start vehicle as usual as bignev suggests. Does it ?

 

Option 2 - It works already if it ain't broke don't fix it, leave it, suck it and see.

 

Best of luck. Let the group know.

[maxcaddy]

Option 2 - It works already if it ain't broke don't fix it, leave it, suck it and see.

 

 

 

 

Well, Option 2 is what I wanted to follow, but not if it's going to cause further problems down the line due to whatever that fuse protects/powers not getting its 12V.

 

If that (Pink) Fuse were to only cover the Alarm system then I'm very happy with no Alarm at all. Ideally does anyone know how to isolate/cut whatever wire/connector it is which powers the Alarm Horn ?. At least that way I can put the Fuse back and not worry that the Alarm will go off again if I disconnect the Battery for a long while.

[QinteQ]

Workshop manuals here: http://www.chryslerforum.co.uk/topic/365-2005-grand-voyager-auto-box-problem/?hl=%2Bmanuals+%2Bqinteq&do=findComment&comment=1465

[QinteQ]

Have you changed the radio/wiring from original Infiniti ?

[bignev]

So, to clarify, is that pink fuse in or out at the moment?

[QinteQ]

It's the whole route protection for all PCi and other instructions from the BCM isn't it ?, The IPM covers whole car and all its 'pings' commands are routed through it:

 

Remote key fob

Radio

Heater blower

Folding mirrors

Central locks

 

Interior lights of course when the key is in the ignition

 

The power seat is a stand alone plug in but the Eeprom instruct command is still via IPM protection, isn't it ?

[bignev]

Hiya @@QinteQ , how are you keeping?

 

You definitely know more than me on that (but in my laziness I haven't looked up the diagram! )

 

What I couldn't grasp, reading back over the post, was that @@maxcaddy seems to indicate that

 

In post 7 that "it all seems to run ok now" 

 

And in post 12 "At least that way I can put the Fuse back and not worry that the Alarm will go off again if I disconnect the Battery for a long while"

 

So I guessed it was out, but everything was working ok. 

 

Apart from the alarm.

 

But then I kind if got lost on whether the fuse was in or out, and confused as to what, right now, the problem actually is?

 

 

@@maxcaddy I get that there was the problem with the alarm / siren going off, but is that not doing it now?

 

 

I have definitely confused myself!!!!!

Edited May 23, 2020 by bignev

[QinteQ]

I'm confused too with alarm. I'm not clear if it was off/now working/ still off so still not sure about the blipper/wireless signal and alarm on/off hence the reason I said the word "marry" meaning the transponder/key fob/car protection might lose the handshake functions in the same way a button battery going flat would do. Locking/unlocking from blooper should re-marry and prove alarm/locking etc.

 

As for you and I were still here and kind of functional compared to some unfortunate others, poor sodds. I got my GOV SMS telling me to go lockdown about 7/8 weeks ago. Take care bignev bud.

[maxcaddy]

Yo Nev,

 

Sorry, I'm getting old and rambling. What happened was .............

 

(1)   In order to stop the battery discharging due to it standing and not being used, I bought a 'dis-connecting clamp' for the Battery.

 

(2)   That all worked fine for a couple of weeks (i.e. every time I was back home I disconnected it) until I left the car for about a week 'disconnected'.

 

(3)   As soon as I reconnected the Battery, the Alarm went off. It kept going off whether the Battery was connected or not, and whatever I did to the fob made no difference. By then as people were coming out their houses I started pulling fuses and relays until it stopped, which it did when the 'pink 30A fuse 'came out.  

 

(4)   I then put all the fuses and relays back in (apart from the 'pink 30A') and the car started, stopped, i.e it ran okay (Hence Post 7 says "With everything else back in place except the pink 30A it all seems to run OK now"). However the words 'run OK now' is limited to the fact that the car works, to be honest I've not fully checked everything it can do, so there could be a 'feature' or two that isn't working (cos pink 30A isn't in).

 

(5).   Because 'modern' cars are so inter dependant on their electronics (i.e. the reversing lamp bulb blows so the compass stops working) I have the concern of what other damage I might be inadvertently causing by continuing to use the car with the pink 30A fuse missing.

 

(6)   It could be that if I now put that fuse back in everything would be fine, but so I don't piss off the neighbourhood with my alarm belting out I'd sooner leave it out unless, as I say, its going to cause further damage to the car further down on the line.

 

(7)   All this happening lead to my question as to is there a way I can 'silence' the alarm permanently (and then put the pink 30A back in). 

 

Hopefully, you're now up to speed, or fallen asleep     

 

 

For Mr Qinteq,  thanks for the links, I am going through them to see if I can ascertain what else that Fuse does, and to see if I can shut the Alarm up permanently, but it could take some time  .

Edited May 23, 2020 by maxcaddy

[QinteQ]

Fitted 'big red key' decade ago, works + safe but only use looking for 'parasympathetic drain'.

Battery in general, or here.

 

"fob made no difference" - is only to marry the IPM/BCM/alarm/IGN switch to the fob/blipper, after the alarm is on and NOT going off

 

- "It could be that if I now put that fuse back in everything would be fine" .. .. ..  well sod neighbours, you have 2 options

- alarm disabled is a nono

- can test @ (a) secure home .. ..  ( or wilderness insecure wasteland elsewhere - choose

 

Original Infiniti ? question ? for the terrifying parasympathetic issue have you changed/messed with any wiring on your car ?

 

 

 

 

[bignev]

Aha! Right then I'm with it, I think!

 

Don't worry - you're in good company with old and rambling - I have a reputation amongst my customers for talking (a lot), going off at a tangent (Ronnie Corbett in that chair anyone?) and coming back, and getting a bit of work done too. Good job I work on a price, not on an hourly rate, they'd never have me back!!!!

 

So we could have a whole host of functions that are off line right now, along with the alarm.

 

But what could - possibly - maybe - if we're lucky - be the case is also that the alarm will now be quiet as the handshake to the key immobiliser has happened? And there is no longer a problem?

 

I'm with @@QinteQ on sod the neighbours, the problem needs sorting and there is only one way to know.

I am presuming you are normally a respectable member of the community - as you clearly care because you haven't just done it up to now, so if they can't accept that poop happens, and to sort it may cause a bit of noise for a short while this afternoon, or in the morning, well knickers to them     (but perhaps not at 11 tonight ) 

 

Stick that fuse back in and have the door open ready to shove the key in !!!

Let the car see the transponder in the key, at ON position, and hopefully you may be good again - fingers crossed.

 

 

I'm just youngster at almost 54, but we've been keeping ourselves very much well out of circulation, with our twin 7 year olds!

And I quite agree we have been so lucky compared to a large number of poor people.

Not my direct friends or customers, but some only once removed, have died from it. Awful.

A bloke I do know was on a ventilator - that really is an understated thing isn't it, it's ruddy life support - but came through, about a month ago, and he is still totally crock now.

 

I'm a heating & gas engineer (well currently, but I quite like this semi retirement pace!) and have lots of elderly customers, so made the decision to stop working around 16th March, as I did NOT want to carry that virus around into peoples homes. No matter how careful you try to be, it could happen.

I have been to a very small number of breakdowns & leaks, but only if I couldn't talk them through sorting it. One 87 year old lady I went to didn't reckon she was up to pulling the washing machine out   

Those hand wipes I used for muck and oil turn out to be anti bacterial too!! Shame it's a virus, but I'm informed it'll still get killed by them.

[maxcaddy]

Okay, I will refit the fuse, but beforehand do a bit of an audit on what does/doesn't work without that fuse in.

 

I'm not sure of when the Key goes in ?, do I put the Key in the Ignition before I reconnect the battery, or as I have been doing, lift the bonnet reconnect the battery then put the key in to start ?

 

I'll try another Battery as the current one (Yuasa 5000) has now had a few sessions of going flat. 

 

So, why is 'alarm disable a nono' ?,  I am confident any thief/joy rider would want to nick something other than a battered 13 year old V'ger with 125,000 on the clock, and if they did I'd worry about insurance issues as and when it happens.

 

Lastly, I've not changed/messed with the electrics at all, especially as it's more than capable of being temperamental on its own. I do have the issue of the Radio/Clock turning itself off after 10 mins/a few miles, which sometimes comes back again, mostly not, but that's been going on for more than a year or so.

Edited May 23, 2020 by maxcaddy

[bignev]

Good choice mate!

 

And yes that would be very useful info if you go round it and see what isn't working without it in.

 

With the door open - I've had cars lock when the battery is reattached. 

 

I personally would put the battery back on, let it do its computer start up sequence for as long as you feel is required, perhaps listening to the clicks and clacks going on.

Then pop the fuse in, ready to leg it round and pop the key in, or have the Mrs handy sat in the car with the door open and she can put the key and turn it on.

(my apologies if that is a sexist or otherwise comment nowadays, perhaps "significant other half" would be more PC)

 

The alarm comment is probably as you guessed, insurers can and will be arses given any tiny wriggle room.

But unless they needed it for transporting a gang for a job it's probably fairly safe as you say, I agree!!

Good luck to them nicking mine!

[QinteQ]

Yuasa generally good quality, but only a type 019 for 2.8CRD's. Never use the dreaded 'put your REG number in here' thing - always get enough plates for high demand cold weather starting, those dBase's always put you into petrol/spark not diesel compression with half the CCA and half the aH for starting. Always an SLI for our Mk's not AGM, were not START/STOP tech. NOTE all type 019 will not fit our battery tray without chonking bits off with an air-saw.

 

Your key IGN question answered by bignev is correct just connect terminals and wait and see outcome before IGN key inserted. Crap battery/infini amp/and lifestyle always lead to alarm issues. At the moment we all have crap batteries due to 'lifestyle' because of co¥id lockdown.

 

Best of luck.

 

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Yuasa-YBX5019-Performance-Starter-Battery/dp/B00KNQS4RW/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=yuasa+5000+019+car+battery&qid=1590255541&sprefix=yuasa+5000&sr=8-1

[bignev]

I've even been out with the battery charger on our petrol !!

And on the other car too, a petrol Subaru Outback 3.0 H6.

That came with a Euro Carparts special, a Lion brand (NOT Lithium Ion as it fools your brain into wishing), 480 cca, when 580 are available from Yuasa and Exide.

It's still doing the job so I'm holding out till winter       then I'll have an excuse for the Mrs.

[QinteQ]

Opinion

 

Less and less lead in them, Less and less quality of lead, EU forced 10% $hite lead from scrapyards into new batteries as a 'green climate' contribution gift to politics and a whole new industry was born into paying endless tax to governments. It used to be 4 bits of good wire through bulkhead, now it's tree sized looms computers controlled PCi signals poor quality Mexican aluminium.

 

Pre Y2k a 20 year old battery was still ok, these days they're not. You can still get Odeyssy who use virgin lead but salty price leaves a bad taste in your wallet. 90% scrap batteries are only sulfated not scrap. Under specified batteries are like domestic heating designed for 'planned deformation' and won't do the job requirement.