2.8 Crd Cylinder Head Gasket Replacement

[dave62pb]

I am pretty sure now the head gasket is leaking, need info,, I have plenty of experience on other cars / engines , just not done a Voyager

Any advise welcome

 

Thanks

 

Dave

[BumBle02]

Hi Go on youtube the engine in a jeep 2.8 crd liberty is the same as a voyager there was a lot on doing head gaskets should be of help. Jeff

[dave62pb]

Hi Jeff, thanks, yes I found details on jeep engine but its more info on dong the job on the voyager like what to remove to make the job easier, cant find anything on the net or a workshop manual on the 2.8 voyager only the 3.3 V6

I am thinking on getting a spare cylinder head having it skimmed do the valves etc then its just a case of swapping it , a bit more expense but it will save a lot of time off the road

I was wondering if that liquid steel seal will help temporary , I need a bit of time until I get my workshop built, don't fancy doing the job outside on the drive and not going to pay garage rates for a job I can do myself 

[BumBle02]

Hi If it is not to bad I use a head sealer it was in a blue bottle I thing it was called kay or kar something like that it,s on ebay it worked so definitely give a try first my friends car is sill going strong and that was a year ago and works with antifreeze make sure you take some water out first before puting it in. It will be a lot better then doing a head job it can take time to do it,s thing. Jeff    it,s called k- seal put in two bottles it will not affect the heater.

Edited February 19, 2019 by BumBle02

[karmannski]

Taking the Head off MK4 Voyager not hard at all, 

 

1. Remove the top plastic Cover (where whippers are)

2. Undo Thermostat hose's ( it will be easier without the cover on) 

3. Get locking tools to lock crank and cams (on eBay for few quid)  

4. Remove Cam belt etc, Inlet, exhaust 

 

Thats it Head off. 

 

Let us know how Liquid gasket worked on/

[dave62pb]

Thanks for that thought it would be more involved gives me something to work on, will keep you informed on Steel Seal performance 

BTW, is it best to replace cylinder head bolts at the same time 

Thanks

[maxcaddy]

If it were mine, a lot depends on how many miles its done. If it was say 50,000 then I would guess something drastic had happened to it like a previous owner having a water leak and seriously overheating it, whereby a skimmed head and bolts etc would be wise. Whereas if it had done say 250,000, its more likely that the gaskets worn out or been eaten away by the anti freeze (or lack of)/combustion gases and whilst the head may still need to be skimmed, the rest may be more salvageable.

 

In any case a new belt, idlers and water pump would be a prudent move, and (as said above) you will need cam/crank locks.

[dave62pb]

Well the Steal Seal has made no difference in fact it made matters worse , as it blocked the vent hole i drilled in the inline thermostat

The problem I have is the pressure , the temp will sit at 1/2 until it dumps the coolant then the temp will rise 

We have had the GV for about 4 years and its got about 131000 on clock , the other odd thing is expansion tank cap lets the slightest pressure past , I replaced it with a new cap and now this does the same

I put the overflow pipe into a drinks bottle and you can see it bubbling before any pressure has built up, I put on a standard rad cap (old British type ) and the bubbling stops

[karmannski]

Have you took the head off? 

Need to be pressure tested and if good skimmed, after all it should be Ok. 

[dave62pb]

No not had the head off yet just trying to nurse on for a bit , I drained the system again yesterday and put the coolant into a clear container after a while it settled and you can see the sealer separate and sink , looks like one of them old lather lamps, 

I flushed the system again by taking of the hose on the aux heater putting hose pipe into the header tank with the engine running until just clean water was flowing 

I have also taken out the inline stat for now until I do the head gasket 

[dave62pb]

Now this is totally strange,  I had to do a 30 mile round trip today so with just water in the system and no inline stat it took a long time to warm as expected but eventually crept to between 1/4 and 1/2 in traffic then back down to 1/4 when cruising 

When I got home i checked the level , I have not lost any water,  the system had virtually no pressure and no sign of any bubbles in the header tank

I will run for a week drain /flush then refill with coolant

[karmannski]

Now this is totally strange,  I had to do a 30 mile round trip today so with just water in the system and no inline stat it took a long time to warm as expected but eventually crept to between 1/4 and 1/2 in traffic then back down to 1/4 when cruising 

When I got home i checked the level , I have not lost any water,  the system had virtually no pressure and no sign of any bubbles in the header tank

I will run for a week drain /flush then refill with coolant

Need new Thermostat, on MK4 temperature should be round the middle all the time.

[dave62pb]

The head gasket has finally given up so decided to do it , I have made a start but now I am stuck , I cannot work out how to remove the rubber intake pipe to the turbo , looks like its bolted under the thermostat housing but I cant see or get to the bolt

TBH I have been fighting with all the pipework at the rear of the engine my patience is running out , was hoping to unbolt the exhaust manifold and tie it back while I remove the head but not sure if that is possible

Any advise welcome

 

Thanks

Dave

[maxcaddy]

"I cannot work out how to remove the rubber intake pipe to the turbo , looks like its bolted under the thermostat housing but I cant see or get to the bolt".

 

Yep, seem to remember that was the same prob for me when I changed the Thermostat, and I was also concerned with breaking the Turbo pipe, so seem to think its a captive bolt on the T'sat side, and that I broke the fitting off of the T'sat by bashing/drilling it. Although another part of the brain says I took the T'sat off with the turbo pipe attached. Although it was only a year ago, the grey matter is letting me down, but, it does come off/apart, so persevere (carefully). 

 

It was certainly a bitch of a job to get yer fingers in there. It will come apart and at that point I would look carefully at what the head and block look like as you could be throwing good money after bad.  

 

​Another thought is, maybe undo the head and take it off complete with manifolds etc attached,

and then separate it afterwards ??

 

Good luck   

[dave62pb]

Doing this job as and when I can get to it now as its such a pain, bought a cheap car for the wife to use to take the pressure off

The securing lug on the turbo pipe broke off but the pipe is ok so will cable tie it back when re fit , got the timing belt off now

it has been replaced at sometime but not done using the locking pegs as I found white marks on the cam wheels that line up with marks on the casing and on the fuel pump mark lined up but the pegs would not go in

I turned the engine over on the crank twice until I could get the pegs in but when I removed the starter motor to find the crank locking hole it is a tooth out as was the pump timing ,  there is a white mark painted on the flywheel just after the first hole , line that to the hole and the pump lines up so looks like its been running a tooth out

Put the peg in the flywheel hole and the cam pegs are slightly out,  on replacement I will put back to factory settings

I have ordered a Taxi TX4 workshop manual for all torque settings  as they use the VM engine

[maxcaddy]

If you're going to change the water pump (a sensible move if you're stripping it down that much) I can't see how you can retime the engine without camlocks unless you take the cam cover off and do it from first principles with protractors etc.

 

The issue is when I did mine I never intend to use cam locks, especially as I've never had to before. So as usual I centre punched marks onto the cam gears, crankshaft pulley, cases, etc etc. However on undoing the cam gears (which you have to do to change the pump) you'll find that the gears are (bizarrely) not key'd or splined onto the cams, they're just held there by the taper. Consequently they spin, and there's no means of re-aligning them without locking the cams in relation to the crank, which then makes a straight forward job into a rights pig's ear.

 

Btw, as it's a common rail diesel you don't have to time the pump to the cams. The pump output is constant, and the injection sequence is not governed by the alignment/timing of the pump to the cams.

Edited February 13, 2021 by maxcaddy

[dave62pb]

If you're going to change the water pump (a sensible move if you're stripping it down that much) I can't see how you can retime the engine without camlocks unless you take the cam cover off and do it from first principles with protractors etc.

 

The issue is when I did mine I never intend to use cam locks, especially as I've never had to before. So as usual I centre punched marks onto the cam gears, crankshaft pulley, cases, etc etc. However on undoing the cam gears (which you have to do to change the pump) you'll find that the gears are (bizarrely) not key'd or splined onto the cams, they're just held there by the taper. Consequently they spin, and there's no means of re-aligning them without locking the cams in relation to the crank, which then makes a straight forward job into a rights pig's ear.

 

Btw, as it's a common rail diesel you don't have to time the pump to the cams. The pump output is constant, and the injection sequence is not governed by the alignment/timing of the pump to the cams.

I did wonder myself with the pump timing, as you say its just a high pressure pump being common rail system

I finally have the head stripped off now and what I found was on number 4 cylinder the liner had a crack about 30 mm long next to the water jacket, its was pitted and I could see where coolant had seeped through

The gasket had a dark stain in one place and also on the head , all the others had a clean unbroken ring mark on the head , checked the head with a straight edge and there are no signs of warping but I am going to have skimmed to be on safe side while its off plus grind in the valves and fit new stem seals

Removed the sump to gain access to no4 con rod to find these engines have balance shafts that are timed to the crank , just more to take off

According to VM information the liners can only be removed when engine is out and disassembled with crank removed , I made a puller/plate that just fit between the bottom of the liner and the crank and a bridge that cleared the top lip of the liner , with a long M20 bolt through the bridge and screwed into the lower plate I tightened the bolt and the liner came out with not too much effort

New liners are about £80 inc vat then a set of rings , just got to measure old liner with shims and make sure new one is set the same

TBC

[maxcaddy]

Sorry, got to ask, are you sure it's worth all the effort/cost, and that another engine / or car wouldn't be a better option ?

[maxcaddy]

Btw some liners are made proud and need to be machined flat to the block, which means further cost/heartache ?.

[dave62pb]

I was already into the costs of the cam belt kit and top end gasket set anyway so might as well carry on at least I know what I have

a lot of work to change a used engine if you don't know its history , the liners are shimmed to achieve correct height to the block surface (they cannot be skimmed as they have a lip on top that sits in the gasket )

I have ordered the new liner/ shim kit / and rings from VM engine parts in Chesterfield , very helpful and reasonable prices

 

I really like what we have GV stow n go if I got rid of it we would want the same again, it took us a while to find the one we have ie colour/spec so don't mind spending on engine overhaul

 

Keep you updated

[maxcaddy]

Good luck  , it'll certainly keep you from being bored during lockdown  . 

[dave62pb]

Finally got the job done, the lip on top of the new liner measured the same as the old one but the shoulder that sits in the block was thinner, I got various thickness shims in the kit so just measured the old liner and shim and set the new to the same, when I set it into the block it was flush  

I had the cylinder head resurfaced / ground the valves in / new stem seals/ and had to replace 1 x hydraulic lifter / piston rings / connecting rod bolts  , putting it all back together was straight forward I played on the side of caution with having the head resurfaced and used a 2 hole cylinder head gasket as the valves are proud of the head .

I have replaced water pump and all pulleys with the new cam belt,   with the crank and cams locked with pins I lined up the pump marks then clamped the belt to pump and cam gears with wooden clothes pegs to stop belt moving while I set the belt tension

When I finally got all the plumbing back together and with a fully charged battery as soon as I got diesel up to the injectors it fired right up , I have had it running for about 1 hour coolant level stays fine temp gauge goes to just under half heater works better than it ever has , at the exhaust it runs very clean now

[maxcaddy]

Wow well done, clearly a lot of work/effort there.

 

Hopefully you'll now be able to do enough miles to warrant the outlay  .

[dave62pb]

Yes it was worth all the effort, I have had my GV stow n go a few years now and would be lost without it , wanted one ever since we rented a Dodge grand caravan stow n go in the states whilst touring on holiday

It took us a while to find the right one.  IE spec and colour so with as it stood without MOT and engine issues it would not be worth much and to find another we would have to pay good money for the right one so don't mind putting this one right