Chrysler Grand Voyager 2.8 Crd Starting Issues

[Adamalzo66]

Recently i have had issues with my 2005 cgv 2.8 crd with starting i love this car but starting is a mayor issue with mine currently. It struggles to start in the mornings if left for hours i bought the battery 7 months ago so i do not think the battery is finished yet i can get it starting by charging the battery but if i try just starting it it cranks for 2 - 3 seconds and dies a couple of weeks back it left me stranded outside the school the starter locked up i managed to hit the started a couple times and it started right back on but im not sure if that has anything to do with the battery draining and after i charge the battery the car starts with no issues any help would be apreciated cheers.

[BumBle02]

Hi Just a point the side light dimmer make sure you leave in the second position down from top or the battery will drain out.

[QinteQ]

First posted Easter 2014 

 

Battery

 

Battery choice, like choosing a wife, provokes different opinions on what is beautiful. The issue however are simple. You should be looking for about 800CCA over 80aH, this is a physical size that will not fit the CRD battery tray, so get a big one and modify the tray, or get a smaller one and take your UK winter chances. There is a~n~other UK issue of lifestyle, its a use it or lose it condition. If like me you do 2000 miles per annum with two 15 minutes trips once a week you will regardless of battery size / cost never keep that battery charged, the BUS [over 7 or so days] at resting will use more than the 30 minutes the alternator was able to replace.

 

Different people have success with different batteries, I'm sure the UK users will come to your aid with their suggestions, particularly the Scottish contingent who have an even colder climate than I. For myself I originally had a Banner Uni Bull 690 over 70 and my replacement was a Bosch S5 Type 96 at 800 over 80. Best of luck.

 

Power seat fuse : are as stated droppers, as you have had your battery removed for 4 days the 'droppers' should re-set themselves via the BCM/IPM

 

Lifestyle : Two 15 minutes trips once a week.

 

The  higher  the  voltage  applied,  the  faster the battery will charge, charging at too  high a voltage WILL  damage  your  battery. A simple 100Ah open lead acid  battery and a 180A charger connected to the battery discharged to 50% :

 

- @ 50% full @ 13.2V current was 35A

- @ 50% full @ 14,8V current was 160A [improvement of 457%]

- @ 75% full @ 13.2V current was 1A

- @ 75% full @ 14.8V current was 60A [improvement of 6000%]

 

Its not linear so :

 

- two 15 minute periods @ 13.2V is 2 x 15 minute @ 21Ah, compared to ;

- two 15 minute periods @ 14.4V is 2 x 15 minute @ 60Ah, is an improvement  of  about  300%

 

The temperature sensor under the battery will drop [ temperature compensator's on modern alternators will compensate] the voltage output from about 14.0V to about 13.2V. The problem I have with this is the engine compartment soon reaches temp and the battery assumes its fully charged.

 

- 13.20 volts is about what you would expect from [split diode - does not apply to Voyagers, and] this vehicle with a temp sensor & alternator compensator

- 14.00 volts  is about what you would expect from any typical alternator without a vehicle temp sensor & alternator compensator

- 14.40 volts is what you would expect from a sealed lead acid to prevent [they tend to gas @ 50ºC] excessive gassing

- 14.80 volts is what you can risk pushing it to with an open lead acid to prevent damage to other equipment connected to the battery at the same time

 

NOTE01 : There are IOD 7 functions that are 'live' when you think your car and battery are asleep, they pull a combined 0.025 ampere draw. I used a Maplins cheepo solar panel which cost me £15 at the time, and I have never been unable to start the car since. They are :

 

• Electrical items left on.

• Faulty or improperly adjusted switches.

• Faulty or shorted electronic modules and components.

• An internally shorted generator.

• Intermittent shorts in the wiring

Remote key fob

Radio

Heater blower

Folding mirrors

Central locks

Interior lights when the key is in the ignition

 

 

IGNITION-OFF DRAW TEST - reproduced from the workshop manual - According to Chrysler's own workshop manual :

 

Allow twenty minutes for the IOD to stabilize and observe the multi-meter reading. The low-amper- age IOD should not exceed twenty-five milliamperes (0.025 ampere). If the current draw exceeds twenty-five milliamperes, isolate each circuit using the fuse and circuit breaker remove-and-replace process in Step 4. The multi-meter reading will drop to within the acceptable limit when the source of the excessive current draw is disconnected. Repair this circuit as required; whether a wiring short, incorrect switch adjustment, or a component failure is at fault

The term Ignition-Off Draw (IOD) identifies a normal condition where power is being drained from the battery with the ignition switch in the Off position. A normal vehicle electrical system will draw from fifteen to twenty five milliamperes (0.015 to 0.025 ampere) with the ignition switch in the Off position, and all non-ignition controlled circuits in proper working order. Up to twenty-five milliamperes are needed to enable the memory functions for the Powertrain Control Module (PCM), digital clock, electronically tuned radio, and other modules which may vary with the vehicle equipment. A vehicle that has not been operated for approximately twenty one days, may discharge the battery to an inadequate level. When a vehicle will not be used for twenty one days or more (stored), remove the IOD fuse from the Integrated Power Module (IPM). This will reduce battery discharging.

 

BatteryMOD

 

I like many of us was an early adopter of AGM, most of us by now will be AGM. It occurs to me that the safe μF we chose for the buttonMOD could be changed to give closer to 14.4V than the 14.1 I was getting. I went 13.9 to 14.1 it would be nice to have that extra .3V, it would make a hell of a difference on a big 80aH even over such a short charging time frame as 15 minutes.

 

I was thinking 22K Ω @ 1/2 watt would be a goodish guesstimate for keeping it under the 14.6[ish] although I'm sure it would be safe a little higher. I'll be happy if I can get to the extra .3's @ 14.4 * Tested .... smack on 14.4-6 winter and 14+ summer over a 6 month period steady across the REV range. This will better recover the winter loss more quickly. Of course in the summer the ALT output will be limited by the lower battery replenishment needs Well pleased !

 

UPDATE : I did a further mod and changed the the 33K Ω @ 1/2 watt to 22K Ω @ 1/2 watt keeps it under the 4.6[ish] I did get the extra .3's @ 14.4+ I was aiming for. This will better recover the winter loss more quickly. Of course in the summer the ALT output will be limited by the lower battery replenishment needs

 

_____________________________________________

 

First posted Jan 2012

 

Rang first to check stock, then went to Halfords, ordered their own recommended [put your registration in] 5 year warranted battery the HSB096 @ £129:99 while the nice clepto-cashier lady was emptying my plastic I flicked up the terminal covers to find the Terminals were the wrong way [o O - they should be - O o] round.

http://i40.tinypic.com/1y8j2r.gif

A 12 year old expert fully trained and certificated male assistant wiped the dribble from his nose and stormed out to my MOTA in the rain which was splattering against his thin bony shoulders making a mess of his over white freshly ironed by his Mother .. .. shirt, all the time asserting in a very authoritative way why I way wrong and why it could not possibly be their 'fittings dBase', his matchstick like thin arms finally managed to lift the bonnet without breaking any of his arms only to find the common standard terminals.

I did try to help his embarrassment, honest I did, I even offered him one of my Wurthers Originals and assured him we all make mistakes .. .. its all part of life's long learning .. .. but I still want my £230 snots back and I want them now. So now I'm back to where I started, I never in my life thought buying a correct 'soddin battery would be so much trouble.

So I start the search again - this companies dBase correctly identifies the MOTA even listing the correct colour of my car etc and suggests 2 - both in the S range both will do the job , the;

S4010 / 12V, capacity 80Ah, cold test current 740A / £72:95 - 5 year warranty - free delivery
S5010 / 12V, capacity 85Ah, cold test current 800A / £87:50 - 5 year warranty - free delivery

My one remaining indecision is that though they list 315mm long, 175mm wide, 175mm high, the 315mm is about 27mm / 1.06 inches more than my current battery which will make the 175mm installed height of the battery a full inch closer to the sound deadening material on the underside of the bonnet [radiator side].

Two Three Four Points

.1. - unless someone wants to convince me before Monday that it wont fit, or the terminals are arras first I'll buy the bigger one

.2. - why waste all these letters of the alphabet ?, because there is an issue getting an 85/800 in the UK to fit a Voyager, and others following me might benefit from a thread that proves you don't have to go for a lesser capacity paying a lot - when you can have the full 85/800 for relatively little compared to the 175/175/278 size.

.3. - if I'm wrong tell me quick !!!! because although this Forum's users will benefit from my mistake, I'll be £88 Quid down the chute !

.4. - don't believe what these 'enter your registration' dataBASE's tell you .. .. they are as good as the wo/man entering the DATA and I've found three tonight alone that were wrong, and one [in hope more that expectation] that's correct.

 

 

[karmannski]

Ok @Admaalzo66

 

Recently i have had issues with my 2005 cgv 2.8 crd with starting i love this car but starting is a mayor issue with mine currently. It struggles to start in the mornings if left for hours i bought the battery 7 months ago so i do not think the battery is finished yet i can get it starting by charging the battery but if i try just starting it it cranks for 2 - 3 seconds and dies a couple of weeks back it left me stranded outside the school the starter locked up i managed to hit the started a couple times and it started right back on but im not sure if that has anything to do with the battery draining and after i charge the battery the car starts with no issues any help would be apreciated cheers.

 

 

Ok I take that your Fuel Filter been changed recently, if not change it b4 you will do anything else.

 

 

1. Remove the plastic engine cover x3 10mm 

2. Buy or get ~0.5cmx 1,5m or longer hose 

3. At the end of the Common Rail pressure pipe undo the return hose and try to block it with a screw for example. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5FnOU4MiIQ

4. If you on your own you will need long hose - Connect your hose to the return valve ... and put the other end to the bottle (secured place to avoid silage). 

5. Start cranking engine as you do (in the morning pref - on cold) and watch if there is any fuel going out of the return valve - if yes - replace the valve at the end (Bosch only) ~£50 - £60. 

6. If no leak on cranking or running engine, try to rev it to 2.500k (max allowance on P gear) and watch if the valve is letting any fuel or not if yes replace if not go to no.7

7. Remove inlet pressure sensor (Bosch part) 4 pin plug x1 hex nut bolt  - its in the inlet not far from the common rail (ref. to the picture attached) 

8. Use brake cleaner to clean in from any deposit - refit and test the cold start on car after few hrs. 

9. If not any better, buy new sensor (Bosch I paid ~ £25) 

 

 

Also good tip to improve cold start is to buy set of new glow plugs, they are cheep as chips these days £10 each all you nee id long 10mm socket to replace them. 

You need to remove alternator to get to the 1st glow plug. 

 

 

Hope this will help. 

 

Good Luck

 

[ZombieRodeo]

Hi Just a point the side light dimmer make sure you leave in the second position down from top or the battery will drain out.

I’m always knocking this to the first position when I get out my car!

[Stealth1hunter]

Not sure if u got this sorted. I had the same problem with starting. Changed battery all was well for a few months then back to bad starting. After some more investigation i found oil was dropping onto starter motor. Starter motor bushes burned out.... bought new starter £120 sorted... 4 months later foun

d you can buy bush set for £15 on ebay

[Kim]

Poor starting ? Replace  Fuel rail high pressure sensor