Does A Grand Voyager 2005 Have An In Tank Lift Pump ?

[Memikee]

Hello all -

My voyager refuses to start .- Cranks fine just won't start ! - battery good,fuel filter And housing replaced,fuses good - I have a relay in the fuse box which is labelled lift pump relay - but I have been told this model doesn't have an in tank lift pump ...but it has a relay installed for one ???

Please can someone clarify - does this model have an intank lift pump ? Thank you !!!!

[BumBle02]

Hi Give  model of voyager petrol or diesel it helps to give you the correct information.

Edited September 1, 2018 by BumBle02

[andyb2000]

Some diesel models have a lift pump, it's not in-tank but it's beside it. The models/versions all vary quite a bit so it's difficult to identify precisely.

 

Simplest method, go look underneath! If you go just beside driver-side rear door, look underneath towards fuel tank you should identify the fuel filter+lift pump assembly if it has one. It's also in my video for replacing the fuel filter as mine has the rear lift pump:

 

[Memikee]

It doesn't have one on the outside of the tank like that - there's nothing there at all - my breakers said it doesn't have one at all,apart from the one near the engine,but my mechanic says it must have one inside the tank,as the fuel would make it to the fuel rail just on the primer pump alone

[Memikee]

It doesn't have one on the outside of the tank like that - there's nothing there at all - my breakers said it doesn't have one at all,apart from the one near the engine,but my mechanic says it must have one inside the tank,as the fuel wouldnt make it to the fuel rail just on the primer pump alone

[andyb2000]

OK, there are none that have in-tank pumps/primers, so if yours doesn't have that assembly beside the tank then yes the only primer is the hand primer bulb in the engine bay, so it relies on the system staying pressurised and using the high pressure pump to do the work.

 

When you have trouble with it starting, go and pump the primer, is it hard or soft? If soft then it is fuel leaking back to the tank so you have a small leak/air leak between there and the tank. The housing with the primer is a common issue as the plastic cracks/becomes brittle and will allow a slight leak.

 

To verify, before you start first thing on a morning, go in bonnet and pump primer a good few times to get the primer bulb nice and hard, then try a start. If it starts then you've confirmed the issue.

If the primer is hard and pumping does nothing to help it starting, then that's not your issue, issue then must be anywhere north of the high pressure pump (Solenoid, hp rail, injectors, pressure relief valve). All of these are common and some easier to test than others (Pressure relief valve and injector leak off test relatively easy so do those first). plenty posts about it and I've done a whole video covering many of these issues.

 

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

[BumBle02]

One other is the fuel filter on mine it was lose it's worth to see if it is tight.

[Memikee]

Bought new housing and fuel filter for engine ,just had leak back test done- all ok -

My mechanics have both said it must have an in tank fuel pump - it even has a relay for one - there's no way the single pump could do it all by itself ? You can even buy an in tank fuel pump on eBay for my 2005 2.8 diesel crd !

[QinteQ]

Do you have a hand primer ? [central ish between RAD and engine block]

[bignev]

Bought new housing and fuel filter for engine ,just had leak back test done- all ok -

My mechanics have both said it must have an in tank fuel pump - it even has a relay for one - there's no way the single pump could do it all by itself ? You can even buy an in tank fuel pump on eBay for my 2005 2.8 diesel crd !

 

Not to criticize too much your mechanics, but my Galaxy 2007 and Sedona 2005 manage it with just the fuel pump on the engine............

And these guys have sorted out a good many problems with starting and running on diesel Grand Voyagers (mines a lovely clean burning LPG model, not a sooty diesel :-)).

 

However - I just had a look on ebay and also saw an add for an "in tank fuel pump for a 2.8 TDI".

 

Did you see the result of the leak off tests?

Edited September 3, 2018 by bignev

[BumBle02]

I have got one I will have. a look and see for you and let you know had a look no pump on it came of one with a filter on the front of the engine just look on eBay it is the same as mine it's a sender only and pick up and return the fuel pump is the one that feeds the injectors as well I just remembered there is a sensor on it just Under the alternator then they go there is no fuel it's called a fuel pressure regulator suction control valve the relay works this valve if you look at the picture on eBay on the injector pump it's on the left side with 3 screws holding it.

Edited September 3, 2018 by BumBle02

[Memikee]

God I'm so confused - I'm gonna go outside and rip the tank of myself and have a look ! ? -

Ok - one question- if it doesn't have an in tank lift pump,why is there a relay plugged in the fuse box for the in tank lift pump ?

Leak back test was good no problem.

New fuel filter and housing(nearvengine)

It starts when I prime using the sprung button on housing in engine.....I'm gonna buy a push bike ??

[BumBle02]

I have got one I will have. a look and see for you and let you know had a look no pump on it came of one with a filter on the front of the engine just look on eBay it is the same as mine it's a sender only and pick up and return the fuel pump is the one that feeds the injectors as well I just remembered there is a sensor on it just Under the alternator then they go there is no fuel it's called a fuel pressure regulator suction control valve the relay works this valve if you look at the picture on eBay on the injector pump it's on the left side with 3 screws holding it.

 

[Memikee]

Right.... so I don't have a high pressure fuel pump like the one in your picture,I just have the primer one with housing ? And nothing else ?

[bignev]

Well I'll join you in being confused - I thought I would just take a look for a tank fuel pump for the 2007 1.8 galaxy, and there are some supposedly for sale too on ebay!!!!!

 

Yet there was no buzzing or whirring noise on ignition, my mate who worked for Ford didn't reckon they had one, and it would never, ever, ever pump fuel back up to the filter. It took a lot of suction on the fuel rail to get it to pull through and run again after a filter change. The Kia was a ruddy doddle, pump back up with the primer and off it would go.

 

So yours then - yes, you do have a high pressure fuel pump, it's located on the engine and driven by belt while the engine is running.

On the relay - buggered if I know hee hee

But did you see how they tested the leak off?? How much fuel was going out of the "return" connection on the injectors?

Check the new fuel filter housing for any tiny air leaks, to enable it to drain fuel back to the tank which is what we don't want.

If the button primer is soft when you start it does seem to point to something in that area. The Kia went soft too, but the injectors were totally trashed, and it needed a whiff of something to get it to fire up.

 

A push bike would be less of a headache than these ruddy things 

Might struggle with the wife, kids & luggage though.

[BumBle02]

The fuel pump is number one in the picture  that feeds the Primer pump  show it to your mechanics they will know what to do. Jeff

[QinteQ]

I think it's LP side issues. No electric lift pump. Complete wrong advice from the mechanics.Drain back / vacuum loss / air in. Andy's GV is the single only 2.8 CRD one I've ever heard of with an electric lift.

 

The hand primer should be rock hard with just one push - if it isn't then drain back / vacuum loss / air into the LP system/ or fuel filter / slack trap / X2 O rings etc. The HP system is more than capable of 'pulling'the fuel instantly if it's ready primed.

[QinteQ]

a slack fuel filter was drawing in air" and allowing the fuel to run back was the cause. The lesson .. .. check the obvious first and the spin on fuel filter is the obvious

 

2012 POSThttps://forum.chryslerminivan.net/showthread.php/25809-NE1-in-the-UK-done-a-fuel-lift-pump-on-a-2005-2.8-CRD

[Memikee]

Everything tight - no problems there - it doesn't even work when I hand prime it - priming pump is always soft-15- pumps or so will get it hard,try starting and it goes soft again ...yet every now and then (very rare) it will start in first attempt

[QinteQ]

It could be slack / dirty filter and any other elements of the LP system. But I am sure it's LP not the other (parts darts) areas.

 

"It doesn't even work when I hand prime it - priming pump is always soft-15-" again says it's LP. Even if it isn't LP the LP needs eliminating first.

 

I always go from cheap DIY to expensive paid experts. Go on the net and find a diagram of a Bosch common rail LP system and work your way through drain back / vacuum loss / air into the LP system.

[QinteQ]

Here's the generic schematic : https://www.dieselnet.com/tech/images/diesel/fi/cr/control/~cr_valve_bosch.jpg

 

- do the entire yellow line including a new filter.

Edited September 4, 2018 by QinteQ

[blueboy]

just to put a spanner in the works, returning from holiday in wales we lost all power (no horrible noises or bangs etc) and just made it to the hard shoulder. RAC turned up and checked over the motor and showed me on his computer thing fault code for the in tank fuel pump dead, got back by rac relay, bought a pump off ebay had it fitted,lots of money as tank has to be completely removed to do the job only to find out the flaming cam belt was shredded as well, so it cost about £400 to find out i had a write off. 3k to replace car with a newer gv 2.8. lesson learn't. but yes there is a pump in the tank.