Need Help

[Adamalzo66]

Hi guys im new to this forum i bought my parents a chrysler grand voyager 2.8 diesel a couple weeks back its a very nice car i got it for cheap but it had one issue the hand brake light is on and the odometer says " Trac Off" today we had a little snow and the tires started slipping when i press the trac off button on the steering column nothing changes i believe that there is a problem with the traction system correct me if im wrong any help would be appreciated guys cheers

[mikebh8]

Hi, the brake light has three functions, as you can see from the lights,

handbrake

Brake pads warned(if fitted with sensors)

Brake fluid

 

Check the fluid in the reservoir

Check the pads

With the car elevated, check that the rear wheels are spinning freely (handbrake cable/caliper blocked)

 

 

As per the tracoff button...I will investigate more into it and come back to you as on mine with the tracoff on the dash if the engine is switched off, when switched on again it doesn't come on( the traction conyrol it turns back on)

 

Hope it helps.

[andyb2000]

Hi there,

Welcome to the club, they're great cars and we're all really enthusiastic about them!

 

So, TRAC OFF is quite a common one, it's currently displayed on mine. Firstly how it works. Normally traction control is ENABLED by default, so you should have nothing shown on the dash. The button is used to disable it temporarily (to rock free from snow, etc) and is done by pressing the button.

 

Since yours is on from switch on it means the system is disabled due to a fault. Since I'm guessing you don't have a fancy Chrysler-compatible code reader you'll have to take a few guesses at what is wrong.

Mine appears to be the wheel speed sensor, this is a magnetic inductance sensor that is attached to the wheel hub and senses a toothed wheel spinning, causing an inductance that the car ABS computer reads and calculates speed and can work out slipping. In my case the front right sensor (I had codes read) is faulty and needs replacing. In some cases the toothed wheel needs wire brushing and cleaning which solves it, so I'd start with that.

 

Take wheel off, take a look behind the brake disc and you should see the toothed wheel and towards the front (I think from memory!) is the speed sensor, check it's fitted ok, cable not damaged, etc (It's on a connector to the top of the wheel arch behind a plastic trim) and then clean up the speed sensor.

It's an auto reset item, so when you fix it after a short distance the indicator will reset and go out (hopefully).

 

Good luck and post back on how you get on.

[mikebh8]

Hi there,

Welcome to the club, they're great cars and we're all really enthusiastic about them!

Andy, I meant to mention it but when I had that (not long ago) the ABS light came on not the tracoff message. In my case was the sensor itself.

 

Let us know if working on the speed sensor recover or emitter solves the problem.

 

So, TRAC OFF is quite a common one, it's currently displayed on mine. Firstly how it works. Normally traction control is ENABLED by default, so you should have nothing shown on the dash. The button is used to disable it temporarily (to rock free from snow, etc) and is done by pressing the button.

 

Since yours is on from switch on it means the system is disabled due to a fault. Since I'm guessing you don't have a fancy Chrysler-compatible code reader you'll have to take a few guesses at what is wrong.

Mine appears to be the wheel speed sensor, this is a magnetic inductance sensor that is attached to the wheel hub and senses a toothed wheel spinning, causing an inductance that the car ABS computer reads and calculates speed and can work out slipping. In my case the front right sensor (I had codes read) is faulty and needs replacing. In some cases the toothed wheel needs wire brushing and cleaning which solves it, so I'd start with that.

 

Take wheel off, take a look behind the brake disc and you should see the toothed wheel and towards the front (I think from memory!) is the speed sensor, check it's fitted ok, cable not damaged, etc (It's on a connector to the top of the wheel arch behind a plastic trim) and then clean up the speed sensor.

It's an auto reset item, so when you fix it after a short distance the indicator will reset and go out (hopefully).

 

Good luck and post back on how you get on.

[andyb2000]

Thanks @@mikebh8 you reminded me about the other bit of key info I'd discovered!

 

If you disconnect the sensor, then the brake warning light illuminates as well as TRAC OFF. So this suggests if the BCM cannot see/detect the sensor it throws the brake warning light as well. So my thinking is when you get TRAC OFF alone it's simply not sensing the speed/rotation of the wheel rather that complete sensor failure.

[Adamalzo66]

Thank you guys very much i recently have been busy this weekend i will take off the 2 front wheels and check behind the brake discs for any loose sensors and clean any dirt and try fixing any loose connections if that doesnt fix it i will shop around for some wheel speed sensors any cheap ones that will do for now if that does not fix it i will have it plugged in by garage and check the codes i will update you guys asap thank you very much

[Adamalzo66]

I was looking around ebay and im thinking about buying these https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F332502727544

Before taking the wheel off if any off the sensors are broken i might as well replace them while im at it are these recomended ? And what wheel what side do i replace thank you

[mikebh8]

Dp you have problems with any of the sensors?

They need changing?

[Adamalzo66]

Mike i do believe my sensors are bad i did some research and apparently its a common issue for them to wear out or become loose i will give them a clean this weekend and check for any loose connections see if that fixes it if that does not work i will get it plugged in before buying replacement sensors

What side wheels shall i check ?

[mikebh8]

If the fault is related to the "track off" future I'd look at the front ones, a decent diagnostic tester would indicate which one is or if is a faulty wire negative or positive.

Sometimes is not just the case of replacing it... could be wires, plugs or bearings.

Before buying anything try to narrow it down...

Also (someone correct me if I'm wrong) the "trackoff" future is the equivelant of the "ESP" which stands for Electronically stability program or ESC which is Electronically stability control, none of them has anything to do with the ABS which stands for "Anti-lock breaking system", they are somehow related as they work through the same sensor but are doing separate things.

 

Recently I was working on a car with fault " front left speed sensor no signal,

permanent" (something like that...it wasn't so recent to remember) and as I was taking the wheel off and it seemed a bit too loose, the driveshaft nut was undone...I have no idea how come but that was it. Another example if you want, a friend of mine after paying £90 plus labour at a garage for an abs sensor, came to me with the fault and was a broken wire under the car...

 

 

Hope it helps.

Edited January 31, 2018 by mikebh8

[Adamalzo66]

Mike thanks for replying its both trac off and the brake light on i was thinking off buying a bluetooth plug in code scanner of ebay they are relativly cheap and would be a good investment to use on other cars i will give all the connectors on both sides of the front wheels an inspection and i will see from there thanks for the help

[mikebh8]

Mike thanks for replying its both trac off and the brake light on i was thinking off buying a bluetooth plug in code scanner of ebay they are relativly cheap and would be a good investment to use on other cars i will give all the connectors on both sides of the front wheels an inspection and i will see from there thanks for the help

I've added some to the reply in the meantime.

[Adamalzo66]

Is the driveshaft bolt easily accessable after taking off the wheels because i have a little knocking noise when turning the wheel but i have not paid attention to it due to it being minor you recon that has something to do with the problem ?

[mikebh8]

If you want my suggestion regarding the software, anything less than £50 it won't do the job.

I tried cheap ones until I found "Delphi ds150e which is Bluetooth, I never made mine working Bluetooth but I have seen mechanics using it wireless.

An old laptop (as I suggested to other forum members) with no firewall, no antivirus and no internet connection and it will do the trick.

 

Hope it helps.

[mikebh8]

Is the driveshaft bolt easily accessable after taking off the wheels because i have a little knocking noise when turning the wheel but i have not paid attention to it due to it being minor you recon that has something to do with the problem ?

After removing the wheel is the center big nut (only the drive wheels will have it, in our case front wheels), mine has a locking pin that goes through the driveshaft keeping the nut to undo, I don't know if all the models will have that. My knocking is from the two bolts that hold the shock absorber thighten to the wheel assembly, when I steer to the left, and then going straight the cara puul to the left, when I steer to the right comes back in place, it a next on the list to replace all shock absorbers.

[andyb2000]

Just to add to this, since you have TRAC OFF and the brake light illuminated that points to a missing sensor, i.e. no reading at all from (I believe) one of the front two wheel speed sensors which was what Mike was pointing to.

 

Also Mike spot on with the ESP being nothing to do with ABS. I believe it's used BY the ABS for wheel speed sensing as auxiliary input but the ABS system itself doesn't require them to be working to operate correctly. I've tested this (Not on purpose!) when I've had a sensor totally disconnected and can confirm the ABS does still kick in.

 

Back to the original point adamalzo66, yes they are relatively cheap but as Mike says do some basic diagnostics, and don't bother getting the cheap bluetooth dongles and Torque or similar, they just won't be of any use on these cars. First thing I'd be doing (Since you don't have a scanner) is taking the front wheels off, taking a look at the sensor, are the wires ok, is the connector plugged in, etc. As you've got both lights off it means the ECU cannot see the sensor at all (It gets a resistance back from it when stationary, and when moving it generates a small AC current) as though it was unplugged or cable damaged, so I'd be doing obvious visual checks first before delving in further.

[Adamalzo66]

Cheers both you guys i will check behind both wheels for any loose connections like i said if it does not seem to have any problems i will take it to a local garage to get it diagnosed thank you guys for all the help

[mikebh8]

Just to add to this, since you have TRAC OFF and the brake light illuminated that points to a missing sensor, i.e. no reading at all from (I believe) one of the front two wheel speed sensors which was what Mike was pointing to.

 

Also Mike spot on with the ESP being nothing to do with ABS. I believe it's used BY the ABS for wheel speed sensing as auxiliary input but the ABS system itself doesn't require them to be working to operate correctly. I've tested this (Not on purpose!) when I've had a sensor totally disconnected and can confirm the ABS does still kick in.

 

Back to the original point adamalzo66, yes they are relatively cheap but as Mike says do some basic diagnostics, and don't bother getting the cheap bluetooth dongles and Torque or similar, they just won't be of any use on these cars. First thing I'd be doing (Since you don't have a scanner) is taking the front wheels off, taking a look at the sensor, are the wires ok, is the connector plugged in, etc. As you've got both lights off it means the ECU cannot see the sensor at all (It gets a resistance back from it when stationary, and when moving it generates a small AC current) as though it was unplugged or cable damaged, so I'd be doing obvious visual checks first before delving in further.

To add on Andy's inspection, mine when was faulty, the "magnetic" bit of the sensor was covered in black staff and slightly damaged.

Try removing them and clean the surface with an alcoholic product.