3.3 Petrol Won't Crank

[Andrips]

Good morning,

Having a bit of a issue with our petrol voyager. It was running fine till Tuesday evening. Wednesday morning my missis couldn't start the car. She called me and said that the car won't start. I come back home and had a look. I turned the key and nothing, not even cranking. Lights on the dashboard are coming on, radio working. I tried to select different gearbox position, still nothing. As son as I turn the key, radio switches off, but no starting noise. The relays are clicking.

I was thinking maybe the battery, as sometimes kids are leaving some lights on, or charging the tablets , took it home and fully charged. This morning the same. Checked the fuses, can't see anything wrong.

The only thing that I noticed is that when I lock the car or unlock, the signal indicators don't work.

Can't really get the car to the garage to do the checks, will have to start with something.

How to check the starter motor?

[8953lewis]

Hi

Definitely the battery had very similar problem new battery fitted never had a problem since. Turns out battery had just died due to being quite old charged it ok for a few days then same thing again rac confirmed battery.

[Andrips]

Can't be a battery. I charged it last night and the battery was holding the charge very well. Didn't had a problem. Beside its not cold at the moment.

If that would be a battery then with a full charge I would expect to crank over at least one or two times.

Petrol engines are not fussy about the battery, on diesel you are getting more issues when batteries does not hold a good charge.

[mikebh8]

Hi, try nocking the starter motor( a hammer handle or a piece of wood), with low temperatures the brushes get stiff sometimes, it is also a sign that needs lokked at.

 

Hope it helps.

[Semmysonic]

I think all voyagers are fussy about their batteries, there are just so many electrical systems on the things.

Will it start with jump leads connected?

[Andrips]

No, jump start I already tried, but no success.

Unfortunately it's not the best time of the year when to do something outside, but will try to eliminate the starter motor and will go from there.

Thanks.

[bignev]

Hiya,

Try leaving the donor car connected for at least a good 10 minutes with the engine running - my own personal experience on my older 3.3 petrol!

 

Even if it's showing 12.7 volts or over it can still not have enough "guts" to turn it over.

I'm no battery construction expert but that can happen when a plate fails, when you try to engage a heavy load it fails you.

Volts aren't amps - they do the cranking over. And amps are "created" by the size of the lead plate content.

Edited January 5, 2018 by bignev

[Andrips]

OK, thanks will try that.

 

Unfortunately no luck with knocking on the starter motor, still not running.

I tried to connect the my OBD code reader, but unfortunately it's showing that no connection. Everything works on the car apart from no connection to code reader and when I lock the car, then turn indicator lights are not coming up.

Also while I was removing and checking all fuses and relays, looks like I pulled the wrong one out, as my radio is asking for the code.

I found some old posts about similar issues and ECU was mentioned. I'm starting to wonder if it is the same case.

Can I just swap the ECU with one from other car?

[Andrips]

Am not really great at the car electrics, can I swap the battery from my 2.8 diesel voyager for testing purposes?

[mikebh8]

Am not really great at the car electrics, can I swap the battery from my 2.8 diesel voyager for testing purposes?

It shouldn't be a problem just look twice before connecting as the batteries are some with minus on left and plus on right and some the other way around.

I still think is the starter, it probably needs replacing (or repaired).

[QinteQ]

"turned the key and nothing, not even cranking" "relays are clicking." "Can't be a battery. I charged it last night" "jump start I already tried, but no success" @@bignev' "Volts aren't amps"

 

- Clicking relays are flat battery

- Headlamps on mainbeam and IGN turned to crank

 - - lights go dim = battery

 - - lights don't go dim = trigger wire / spade

- As bigev says - volts aren't AMPS, got that right, if only all the people knew why 

 

Check the trigger, 99/100 its just a manky spade etc, more than that start here. Best of luck.

[Andrips]

Thanks for your help.

I swapped the battery from my diesel voyager, still no luck. I haven't tried to jump start it as yesterday some other car was parked next to mine, will see if I can do it today.

Swapped all the fuses and relays from diesel voyager, still nothing. Diesel one starts fine with the fuses and relays from the petrol voyager, so they all are OK.

Today's plan is to get the extra power to starter motor, to see if it will be cranking.

[Andrips]

The starter is cranking if if connect directly 30 +87 on starter relay, but the car doesn't start.

Looks like something with the key assambley or immobiliser

[Andrips]

I have a power to the key, but looks like after that it's lost. The 12v socket doesn't work either. Only the one who is permanently on.

Not 100% sure but sounds like the fuel pump doesn't start either.

Immobiliser? Loosing ideas.

[bignev]

Or ignition key barrel?
It wouldn't answer the immobiliser point though, has the transponder reader ring slipped behind the plastic cowling, that would enable it to switch everything on but not run, I tried to start one of ours once with the key to the other, but differed as it ran for a second or so then shut down.

Edited January 6, 2018 by bignev

[Clutchnut]

If your code reader isn't connecting, that's usually the ecu not powering up. If your lights and everything else is powering up, then there's no reason for the switch live auxiliary socket not to work as well. It might be worth eliminating that issue first to make sure it's not part of the same problem.

[Andrips]

I'm not sure how to get it sorted. Can't see any broken or loose wire.

Maybe worn ignition barrel? But if I change the ignition barrel, do I need to change the ecu?

I'll try to make a special cable from always live 12 v socket to other, to see if that will help.

Today am pretty sure that I can't hear the fuel pump coming up. Haven't bypassed the relay to test it, will do tomorrow evening.

[bignev]

I can't actually definitely confirm on the GV, but most have a separate sensor ring, but of course it would be the wrong key / transponder anyway. If you remove the steering column cowl and trim below you should hopefully be able to get to the connector plug to check voltage in and out

[Andrips]

I can check the voltage in, and all is good, can't find where to connect to check the voltage out. Will look tonight again.

[mikebh8]

While cranking the engine( it needs a second person or crocodile clamps) check if power goes to the starter.

 

Hope it helps.

[macuniyanukukuk]

I had exactly the same problem on my 2006 3.3 it turned out to be a wire loose on the starter motor itself.

[Andrips]

I finally got the car running. But it's a tricky one, as I had to bypass the small starter relay. 

Looks like a loose, damaged  wiring  or worn the ignition barrel. Will try to find out over the weekend.

Thanks for your help. 

http://content7-foto.inbox.lv/albums/a/aabbxx/Voyager-N1DXE/IMG-20180108-202615.sized.jpg?1515448887

Edited January 8, 2018 by Andrips

[Andrips]

This morning things are not going well with the car. It's started fine. (yesterday evening I was running it and took it for a short ride, no problem)

This morning it's started fine, but few minutes later, the revs were going down and back to normal.

The cluster faded. ABS and the brake light stayed ON. And after some minutes running like that, the battery light come up. But it disappeared as soon as the revs were back to normal. Then appeared again.

After 5-7 minutes running like that it's stopped. I started again and it's stopped minute later. After that I haven't managed to get it running. Didn't spend to much time on it as I was late for work.

Last night we had a rain, this morning car was wet, it's about 10 degrees Celsius, inside the car could feel moist. All windows were wet from both sides.

Looks like the car have huge wiring issue or just one loose contact.

Is there something that is related to all this isuues? Ground? Or + has become loose somewhere?

Thanks.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Andrips

[mikebh8]

Hi, diesel cars are running with the battery removed, on petrol only some.

Try, with the engine running, disconnecting the minus and then the plus see if it still runs.

If it does stay on or not, it still points towards the alternator, check what voltage do you get with the engine running( on the battery terminals).

Hope it helps.

[Andrips]

Engine running smoothly with out the battery.

I found the problem, damaged /corroded the wire. Looks like someone has made a cut and moist got in.

Wires are fixed, but the gearbox is still giving me a headache, still not running smoothly. Gears are not changing.

At the moment I can read only one issue with the O2 sensor, don't think it's related to the gearbox issue.

Before the wires were fixed I could read the issue with o2 sensors and P700 about the gearbox. At the moment no more P700.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Andrips

[mikebh8]

Now try disconnecting the battery maybe it will reset.

Very unusual place to find a fault but hey good you find it.