Auto Shifting Problem

[kelvin]

Hi there. I'm still having problems with gear changes on my Chrysler Grand Voyager 2003, diesel, 94k. For about the 1st hour it changes gear as sweet as can be, then it's like someone has flicked a switch. It starts revving really hard and is unwilling to change up. Likewise it's keen to change down unnecessarily. If I give the car a rest for about 30 mins all is fine again. I have now done auto filter and oil change using recommended oil. Any ideas anyone please?

[bignev]

Bit of a guess but still sounds like a fluid temperature related problem, how mucky was the old stuff?

If it was really bad it may need doing again, as it's a long way from a full change we can do by dropping the filter pan off.

[kelvin]

Hi bignev. Thanks for the input. Old fluid wasn't mucky at all and didn't smell burnt. I get what your saying about a change being a long way from a full change but I reckon that fluid hadn't been in there long. Might revisit your suggestion though.

I agree it could well be a fluid temperature problem. The engine temp rarely gets near half but auto fluid might well be a different matter. I have seen mention of a temperature sensor on this forum that seems to feed info to the TCM. Anyone know anything about this please?

I have also seen an earth mount on the gearbox mentioned. Anyone know where this is please?

Lastly, what's the model/code for the auto box? (41TES?).

My apologies guys if I seem like I'm hassling but any info/input would be very welcome

[andyb2000]

I think you're on the right track with temperature, ATF becomes thinner when warm (from my reading up) and can cause shift problems. If I remember correctly that is one of the 3 radiators on the front of the car, an ATF cooler (at the back is the main radiator, then you have an oil cooler and ATF coller) so I'm wondering if for some reason that's not working efficiently.

 

One one of your longer drives when the problem happens, pull over and CAREFULLY touch the atf cooler radiator, check top and bottom and see if one part of it is hotter or cooler, am wondering if it's sludged up somehow and isn't circulating/cooling as efficiently as it should be.

 

Sorry, don't have precise answers on your questions though as can't get on my docs from where I am at the minute.

Edited November 14, 2017 by andyb2000

[bignev]

Hi Kelvin, I should have also asked some background, have you had it long?

 

In additton to Andy's comments, could a previous owner have NOT used the ATF+4 mopar stuff? And now its effects are coming out? 

[kelvin]

Hi both. First off nice one Andy, thanks, good tip.Yes the ATF cooler seems to be the middle 1 of 3 and I have gained enough access by simply removing the front chrome grill. I can, in future, keep a CAREFUL eye or hand on things. It's unlikely that I will be going on a long run for maybe 2 months or so but I will report back.

You use the word "sludged". Yes interesting thought. I think this is what you are alluding to bignev. In answer to your question: I have only had the car a few months and a previous owner could easily have put the incorrect fluid in......

For anyone who might be following this thread in the future Interesting article here about "Why Chrysler Transmissions Fail" 

 

jerickweb.50webs/autobin/Chrysler_Trans_Tip

 

Thanks again to you both.

[kelvin]

Hi guys. Sorry for the delay. Don't often go for a long run but also life takes over doesn't it. I have checked the relevant radiator as suggested on long runs and it barely warms up at all.

Also possibly a breakthrough today. While taking the car for a pre mot check to a new mechanic I mentioned my auto box symptoms and he was happy to do a quick diagnostic, (Previous mechanics have fobbed me off with "You need an auto box specialist mate".) Anyway the result was " auto box temperature sensor" or wording very similar - Sorry it was a very quick check and busy with the mot list. He deleted it to see if it comes up on my next long run. Which is next week.

My question is where is the auto box temperature sensor please?. I have trawled the internet and this site with no specific result.

Any input would be welcome.

Many thanks 

Kelvin

[BumBle02]

Hi If you are still Getting the problem I had the same thing on a car and found the rad for the auto was full road dirt cleaned  it out and no more  trouble hope is the problem forgot to look at date again who's a dip stick

Edited June 27, 2018 by BumBle02

[kelvin]

Wow. Many thanks BumBle. That's a good suggestion. I shall try it. I am trying the relatively simple/inexpensive ones first. Took the TCM off. Inspected it, cleaned it, replaced it. No difference. 

Many thanks. Cheers 

[BumBle02]

Found one of those Russians  doing the same job on youtube check it out  the rads were full of  road dirt hope it helps you a bit more on your problem.

Edited June 28, 2018 by BumBle02

[QinteQ]

I had no problem but decided to do an all fluids change including oil, and hygroscopic bake fluid. Vacuum through the dipstick did a good half on gearbox then replace with recommended. Loosened bottom hose OUT with engine running, heater matrix wide open, fan full belt and hose pipe at the same rate IN did the job. It looked like Heinz main course soup - lots of square carrots - do NOT back-flush alloy rads !

[kelvin]

Thank you both for the input(s). Have externally pressure washed the rad down today. Worth inspecting/washing but frankly not that bad.Well worth a stab though. Thanks again.

Am going on a long trip tomorrow, well about 2 hours, so I expect it to misbehave. My new helpful mechanic will check to see if the "temperature sensor" code comes back next week as it's in for its mot anyway.

Thanks QuinteQ. I have only recently sussed your input on a previous/old autobox problem enquiry on this site. Very comprehensive and nice cross references. Thanks. 

Had auto fluid replaced as soon as I got the vehicle but didn't do it/oversee it myself. Might need to do this myself as you are alluding to. I get most of it but please can I ask "fan full belt and hose pipe at the same rate IN did the job". What do you mean by "fan full belt" and are you saying you flushed the rad with tap water?

Many, many thanks if you can reply. I like this car it does what I want locally but it's longer term future is in doubt if I can't get this auto box problem sorted.

Cheers.

[QinteQ]

Yes, flushed with ordinary hosepipe water. The en hose in the white plastic top up bottle flowing in at the same slow rate as the slackened bottom hose was flowing out. Heat full on and fan full on with engine running is to completely flush the heater matrix. You will see the pulse [es] of water going into the little In pipe on the water top up bottle as evidence of a regular circulation of water all round your engine. I used a full 5L can of G05 and a full 5L can of distilled water to refill with the correct coolant when the forward flush was running clear. Take care with a running engine ! Best of luck.

 

[kelvin]

Job done. Thanks guys. Worthwhile routine maintenance but frankly not looking mucky at all. The engine cooler rad and the auto box rad are separate entities so unless I'm missing something this shouldn't help with gear change problem. Nevertheless routine maintenance. All good

Still waiting to hear from my mechanic re "gearbox temperature sensor" code but he suggested phoning his Chrysler parts dealer to buy a "autobox temp sensor". In essence they said no such thing as a "gearbox temperature sensor". Suggested I play parts darts with them. Start with 2 sensors input and output £50, then if that doesn't work try a new shift solenoid for £200. £££ ..Kerrrchiiiinnng. I declined their offer. 

If the auto box rad is not getting warm even on a longish trip as I have noticed then as has been suggested here maybe it's a blockage. If we do another auto box oil change is there a method to flush or purge the auto box system? 

Any thoughts would be welcome.