More Ooolant Loss - 2.5 Crd Post Top Hose Additional Thermostat Failure

[Argee]

Ladies and Gents,

 

I have a 2003 2.5 CRD with about 141k miles on the clock and I too have been losing coolant.

 

Last year I realised that my thermostat was stuck open and the engine was taking ages to warm up.  I then fitted an extra (working) thermostat to the top hose, and life was good...

 

A month ago I was driving on a motorway and suddenly the temperature gauge went off the scale.  I pulled in at a garage and found that the coolant level was very low.  I topped it up and managed to limp home.

 

I then removed the top hose thermostat and replaced it with a new one.  I tested the old one and it did seem to stick.  I hoped that the new thermostat would do the trick but I found that I am now having to add about a litre of coolant after every trip :-(

After a long run I found that there were signs that the coolant had leaked in the area under the rear right side of the engine.  There was also a pretty even film of coolant on the back of the car.

 

I think that the leak is external and that it gets sucked up onto the back of the car when I'm moving fast.  The engine is running smoothly and there is no sign of water in the oil.  The exhaust is not smokey either.

 

Do you have any clue as to what is leaking - is it a hose?  Has anyone had this problem before?

 

As always, very grateful for any advice that you have.

 

Cheers,

 

Argee

 

[Argee]

Oh dear - I just realised that I typed Ooolant instead of Coolant!  Silly me!!

[mikebh8]

Hi, I assume rear right is car's point of view and not by looking at it( just to clarify is not the gearbox side).

Behind there is the original thermostat and oil cooler which has water hoses as well. Slightly behind is the water pump too, more to the side but I guess a leak would be pushed behind the engine.

Plus, by topping only a litre every once in a while means it looses only when the engine is on otherwise would loose more and you will see it on the floor where the car is parked. Any of those connections could be loose.

Leaving the car running on idle, you could spot it by removing the wiper blades, wiper motor cover and wiper motor enclosure and you can see exactly if is from there.

 

Hope it helps.

Edited October 1, 2017 by mikebh8

[bignev]

Hi Argee, 

 

I've recently had a similar experience on our 1.8 diesel Galaxy, at this point I've swapped the expansion bottle cap for a new one and it seems to be hopefully behaving itself.

Because if the cap fails the coolant isn't pressurised so can boil up in the first instance - like yours and mine getting very hot - then will leak out, but we would be keeping a close eye on the temp hey!!

 

Not sure what side the bottle is on yours?

Edited October 1, 2017 by bignev

[mikebh8]

When mine was boiling, it pushed out the lower radiator hose, so assuming is boiling, there is still a loose connection where the water is escaping from. Mind that there is pressure in the system when the driving temperature is reached. In the expansion bottle cap fault would be that it does not allow the water to be sucked back in the system while is cooling, my opinion at least.

[bignev]

Yes that's of course another fault - a lose hose.

 

The expansion bottle cap has 2 functions, and therefore sections -

 

1) to keep it pressurised to a set level then release the "over pressure" value, which should just be air if the bottle is not over filled. Hence the value marked on it, possibly say 1.1 bar.

 

2) then allow air back into the bottle as the system cools and the pressure drops below its' set value, and as this happens the coolant level drops back into the system.

 

So if the bottle cap isn't controlling the pressure at all properly, the water will expand when heated and piddle out of the top of the bottle - like my Galaxy just did.

 

The expansion of water from 20 deg to 80 deg is 10%, a fair bit, so the pressure goes up and the air in the bottle is at pressure.

 

On a house, "sealed" central heating systems, no tanks in the loft, as in combi boilers etc, we have expansion vessels, either usually in the boiler, or if they fail and can't be sensibly replaced (as on older boilers) an external red vessel connected somewhere on the heating pipework.

 

A radiator cap as on my 3.3 GV performs a similar function, but the over pressure relief is coolant into the expansion bottle, then the smaller metal disc in the cap pulls down when the pressure drops to allow coolant back into the rad.

[Argee]

Hi, I assume rear right is car's point of view and not by looking at it( just to clarify is not the gearbox side).

Behind there is the original thermostat and oil cooler which has water hoses as well. Slightly behind is the water pump too, more to the side but I guess a leak would be pushed behind the engine.

Plus, by topping only a litre every once in a while means it looses only when the engine is on otherwise would loose more and you will see it on the floor where the car is parked. Any of those connections could be loose.

Leaving the car running on idle, you could spot it by removing the wiper blades, wiper motor cover and wiper motor enclosure and you can see exactly if is from there.

 

Hope it helps.

Hi Mikebh8,

Yes, rear right from the car's point of view.

I don't seem to lose any coolant unless the engine is running.  I'll try to run it and see if I've got a loose hose (Please let it be that!!)

Many thanks :-)

[Argee]

Hi Argee, 

 

I've recently had a similar experience on our 1.8 diesel Galaxy, at this point I've swapped the expansion bottle cap for a new one and it seems to be hopefully behaving itself.

Because if the cap fails the coolant isn't pressurised so can boil up in the first instance - like yours and mine getting very hot - then will leak out, but we would be keeping a close eye on the temp hey!!

 

Not sure what side the bottle is on yours?

 

 

Yes that's of course another fault - a lose hose.

 

The expansion bottle cap has 2 functions, and therefore sections -

 

1) to keep it pressurised to a set level then release the "over pressure" value, which should just be air if the bottle is not over filled. Hence the value marked on it, possibly say 1.1 bar.

 

2) then allow air back into the bottle as the system cools and the pressure drops below its' set value, and as this happens the coolant level drops back into the system.

 

So if the bottle cap isn't controlling the pressure at all properly, the water will expand when heated and piddle out of the top of the bottle - like my Galaxy just did.

 

The expansion of water from 20 deg to 80 deg is 10%, a fair bit, so the pressure goes up and the air in the bottle is at pressure.

 

On a house, "sealed" central heating systems, no tanks in the loft, as in combi boilers etc, we have expansion vessels, either usually in the boiler, or if they fail and can't be sensibly replaced (as on older boilers) an external red vessel connected somewhere on the heating pipework.

 

A radiator cap as on my 3.3 GV performs a similar function, but the over pressure relief is coolant into the expansion bottle, then the smaller metal disc in the cap pulls down when the pressure drops to allow coolant back into the rad.

Hi BigNev,

If I check the level of the coolant after a trip, there is pressure in the system when I remove the filler cap (which is on the left side of the car as you sit in it,)   When I top up the coolant, I do it to the cold level marker which leaves quite a lot of space in the expansion tank.  

Am I right in thinking that, with these 'symptoms,' a filler cap fault is looking less likely?

Many thanks :-)

[bignev]

Indeed yes the cap is far less likely if it's holding pressure - it's definitely pressure not sucking is it? As it could be too weak on one but ok on the other. And on the opposite side of the car.

 

But, as it is on the opposite side of the car to the coolant appearing on the body , what's underneath on the drivers side?

On the petrol engine there is a metal section of hose that corrodes, and also an "O" ring where it goes into the water pump.

Lets hope it's a hose, I've had a couple of them too. Good luck pal.

Edited October 1, 2017 by bignev

[Argee]

Ah ha!!

I think I've found the problem! It looks like...or rather, there is a small hole in the 'u' shapes hose the comes from the oil cooler. (I'll try to attach a photo...)

Does anyone know the best place to find a new piece of hose? I'll have a look through eBay later, but I'd rather use a new piece.

[bignev]

Try the guys in parts at Pentagon dealers in Barnsley, Yorkshire, very helpful in the past.

[mikebh8]

If you can't get it as original part, try a local pressurised hose supplier. I used some on old cars where parts availability is unlikely an option...

You have to tell them you need a hose for pressure and temperature and they should be able to help you.

 

Hope it helps.

[Argee]

Try the guys in parts at Pentagon dealers in Barnsley, Yorkshire, very helpful in the past.

BigNev - I just called the very helpful folks at Pentagon. I said that you had recommended them. Apparently the part ships from Italy (presumably from VM.)

I choked at the price and lost focus after the price started with the words "one hundred and..."!!!

 

I think I might try MikeBH8's suggestion of pressure hose suppliers!

Edited October 9, 2017 by Argee

[bignev]

OWWWWCH !!

 

But on the plus side it's available............

 

However, in the short term, there are two of the hoses on ebay tonight for around twenty quid.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-CHRYSLER-VOYAGER-2-8-crd-OIL-COOLER-PIPE-U-SHAPED-/253152879258?hash=item3af116629a:g:QwcAAOSwQJhUcQai

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-CHRYSLER-VOYAGER-01-04-2-5-crd-OIL-COOLER-PIPE-U-SHAPED-/253180046633?hash=item3af2b4ed29:g:QwcAAOSwQJhUcQai

 

I've had stuff off this guy and (I can only say so far) has been spot on, and quick to send stuff.

Edited October 9, 2017 by bignev

[Argee]

bignev,

 

I bought one of those ebay items and fitted it last weekend.   Touch wood - I'm not losing anymore coolant!  :-D
 

I'm going to attach some photos of the old pipe and give some dimensions just in case someone else needs to get one of these made up....

[Argee]

These are some photos of the small coolant hose that runs to the oil cooler on my 2.5 CRD.  I was quoted £100 plus by a Chrysler dealer.  I found a used one on ebay.  If you have to get someone to make one up, the following measurements might be of use:

 

Inner diameter of the hose:  15mm

Outer diameter of the hose:  24mm (this may have stretched a little bit)

The wall thickness of the hose seems to be around 4mm

 

Height of the U if you stand it on a table : 62mm

Width of the U :  about 60mm

 

 

Hope this helps.