Glow Plug Timer Relay Controler

[yableep]

Hi all,

Maybe someone can help me. I have a 2.8 2007 crd voyager.

I got some starting problems when it is colder (hard starting, white smoke from exhaust and glow light on dash coming on and going off in about 2-3 seconds).

First thing came to my mind was the glow plugs.

I got them changed (1 bad one), but still having the same problem.

I read that this model has 2 relays.

I want to start backwards to find the problem, next inline would be the timer controler relay.

The questions is, where are they?

Maybe someone has a drawing or found a video on youtube.

Thanks

[andyb2000]

Hi there,

Firstly, after a bit of investigation I did a while ago on my 2005 2.8CRD I found that the glow plug light on the dashboard did NOT relate to how long the glow plugs received their power!

So i'd say you need to get in with your meter and test the same on yours. Take the cap off one plug, meter probe into one and to ground on the 12v setting, ignition on and see how long you get 12v for. From memory mine stayed on for around 10 seconds, so plenty time for glow plugs to do their job.

(BTW glow plug timing comes from the ECU, there isn't a separate controller/delay timer).

 

The relay is at the front of the engine compartment, attached to the front crossbeam and only a single one, but by the sounds of it that isn't your problem.

 

More likely if you're having cold start problems it could be a host of other things if you search up you'll find mention of quite a few issues at cold start, relating to diesel return valve, fuel pump, etc.

Edited September 18, 2017 by andyb2000

[yableep]

Hi there,

Firstly, after a bit of investigation I did a while ago on my 2005 2.8CRD I found that the glow plug light on the dashboard did NOT relate to how long the glow plugs received their power!

So i'd say you need to get in with your meter and test the same on yours. Take the cap off one plug, meter probe into one and to ground on the 12v setting, ignition on and see how long you get 12v for. From memory mine stayed on for around 10 seconds, so plenty time for glow plugs to do their job.

(BTW glow plug timing comes from the ECU, there isn't a separate controller/delay timer).

 

The relay is at the front of the engine compartment, attached to the front crossbeam and only a single one, but by the sounds of it that isn't your problem.

 

More likely if you're having cold start problems it could be a host of other things if you search up you'll find mention of quite a few issues at cold start, relating to diesel return valve, fuel pump, etc.

Hi,

Thanks for your reply,

Apparently the first stage is a relay (ECM in the fusebox) that turns on the second controler relay.

Before I can elimate the glow plugs, I need to test the whole line and after that I can look else were.

Next is to test if there is power going to the glow plugs.

[mikebh8]

...white smoke is a sign of oil burned....

FYI...a diesel would start with no spark plugs connected,difficult in cold whether but would still start, the only thing they do is to eliminate the black smoke coming out of the exhaust( tested, not in the minus 5-10 degrees but the engine starts without the spark plugs)

Another thing about the "glow light on the dash", it does not show when the spark plugs are worm enough to start the engine, behind it is a set of capacitors and when are fully charged will turn off the light on the dash to let the driver know when is enough power stored to crank the engine....there is no heating element that heats up the spark plugs( that was just to clear the "heating plugs" myth)

If any of the spark plugs fails, would be black smoke and on first start only (within the first 10-15 seconds of the ignition).

I would eliminate the glow plugs already and look elsewhere...

I use cooking oil on my diesel cars and the only problem I have is, when cold whether or cold engine, white smoke and difficult to start.

 

What I think( not an expert..) Is oil in the combustion chamber mixing with diesel, try getting an easy start spray, and before starting the engine, spray into the air intake just a bit( 2-4 seconds pressing the spray nozzle), plus check the oil level... Other, very unlikely, is water in the combustion chamber, would still bring up the white smoke but different symptoms, it won't even start.

 

 

Hope it helps.

Edited September 18, 2017 by mikebh8

[yableep]

...white smoke is a sign of oil burned....

FYI...a diesel would start with no spark plugs connected,difficult in cold whether but would still start, the only thing they do is to eliminate the black smoke coming out of the exhaust( tested, not in the minus 5-10 degrees but the engine starts without the spark plugs)

Another thing about the "glow light on the dash", it does not show when the spark plugs are worm enough to start the engine, behind it is a set of capacitors and when are fully charged will turn off the light on the dash to let the driver know when is enough power stored to crank the engine....there is no heating element that heats up the spark plugs( that was just to clear the "heating plugs" myth)

If any of the spark plugs fails, would be black smoke and on first start only (within the first 10-15 seconds of the ignition).

I would eliminate the glow plugs already and look elsewhere...

I use cooking oil on my diesel cars and the only problem I have is, when cold whether or cold engine, white smoke and difficult to start.

 

What I think( not an expert..) Is oil in the combustion chamber mixing with diesel, try getting an easy start spray, and before starting the engine, spray into the air intake just a bit( 2-4 seconds pressing the spray nozzle), plus check the oil level... Other, very unlikely, is water in the combustion chamber, would still bring up the white smoke but different symptoms, it won't even start.

 

 

Hope it helps.

Hi,

Thanks for your info,

But I think you have your theory little bit mixed up.

White smoke is condensation, normal on a cold starting car (or water get's in to the chamber, like from head gasket),

black suddy smoke is a sign of incomplete combustion.

Blue smoke is burning oil. 

The glow plugs will heat the chambers prior starting. If glow plugs don't work properly you will have condensation in the chamber, hence the white smoke on start up.

[yableep]

Hi there,

Firstly, after a bit of investigation I did a while ago on my 2005 2.8CRD I found that the glow plug light on the dashboard did NOT relate to how long the glow plugs received their power!

So i'd say you need to get in with your meter and test the same on yours. Take the cap off one plug, meter probe into one and to ground on the 12v setting, ignition on and see how long you get 12v for. From memory mine stayed on for around 10 seconds, so plenty time for glow plugs to do their job.

(BTW glow plug timing comes from the ECU, there isn't a separate controller/delay timer).

 

The relay is at the front of the engine compartment, attached to the front crossbeam and only a single one, but by the sounds of it that isn't your problem.

 

More likely if you're having cold start problems it could be a host of other things if you search up you'll find mention of quite a few issues at cold start, relating to diesel return valve, fuel pump, etc.

Thanks AndyB2000,

You got me on the right track with the glow plug dash light. This morning at 5 (7 degrees temperature) I started the car, but after the light from the glow plugs gone off on the dash, I left it another 6-7 seconds before I turned her over and she started with no problems.  I hardly saw any white smoke.

[mikebh8]

Hi,

Thanks for your info,

But I think you have your theory little bit mixed up.

White smoke is condensation, normal on a cold starting car (or water get's in to the chamber, like from head gasket),

black suddy smoke is a sign of incomplete combustion.

Blue smoke is burning oil. 

The glow plugs will heat the chambers prior starting. If glow plugs don't work properly you will have condensation in the chamber, hence the white smoke on start up.

You're right, my apologies... I can't even explain myself how I went towards the oil.... I am dealing with some other issues and (not an excuse) in my head I probably changed the faults while I was typing.

Anyway glad is sort it.

[andyb2000]

Great, and hey we all get it mixed in our head at times, I know I do often enough!

Since leaving longer got you starting easier, chances are one or more of the glow plugs aren't working. Test each one, you should get resistance to ground from the tip of each plug. I did a howto video a whole back on testing and replacing.

 

They're cheap enough, but one of the 4 plugs are a pig to get at (left most, behind alternator). If you're lucky and have the right shape/angle sockets you can do it, otherwise it's Aux belt loose, alternator moved job. All DIY do-able though, just take your time so you don't snap them in their housing.