Battery Drain

[legonsuk]

I have started getting battery drain . battery ok had it checked.alternator ok pumping out about 14.5 . done the fuse test with meter and the only fuse that was hi was the IDO fuse can any one tell me whats this fuse is powering so i can try and start eliminating the components . any help will be greatly appreciated as i am beginning to think it was a bad idea buying a chrysler.

[bignev]

The IOD fuse is for the Body Control Module and various other things.

 

It's been on very recently so worth a look back on recent posts but I think you need to check this one for draw only after at least 15 minutes of key out and exit the car, it monitors for internal lights, door closers and other bits for a while before going to standby mode.

[QinteQ]

14.6 without first having the ButtonMOD wiring completed is unheard of my friend. The BCM applies a 'limiter' denying the battery anything over 14V. This IOD issue earns a 'frequent' label on these forums and though it can be anyone of dozens causes usually it starts with the "its definitely not the battery" phrase. So eliminate battery then bodge wiring particularly audio. Best of luck.

[andyb2000]

As QinteQ and bignev says, this is such a common one. IOD is 'always' (I say that carefully!) the biggest idle draw. Why is that? Because it powers all the idle equipment in the vehicle waiting for a wake-up (From keyfob remote. Radio/accessories, etc) so when you found that the higher draw, what current was it pulling at idle?

 

The current will answer your question. Many amps and you have a problem, otherwise I'm with QinteQ, battery would be my first port of call knowing how much trouble we all have with keeping out batteries topped up and happy (Even after buttonmod a top up from a charger now and again never hurts)

[legonsuk]

The battery is 2 weeks old had a mechanic test it and all ok test the alternator ok to .then rang my local chrysler dealer up and told them what was up . well they where as much use as chocolate teapot .

[legonsuk]

Done the fuse test with a meter engine was off .

[andyb2000]

Hi @@legonsuk ok so we reckon battery good, so now onto identifying IOD draw. When you had the meter instead of the fuse on IOD what current was it pulling?

 

Remember to test like this: engine off, key off+out, driver door (all doors) shut, bonnet up. Wait 5 minutes (at least) then pop IOD fuse out, put meter in, wait again I'd say 5 minutes and take the reading.

The reason for the delays? When the IOD is removed/re-added the car computer will wake up and go into it's more active state, you want to wait and see what it's like at idle/sleep state to get an idea what your idling current draw is.

 

When it's in idle you should have the following characteristics: radio clock OFF, interior lights all OFF, any/all side/park lights OFF. One that seems to come up frequently is the amplifier is sometimes forced to be on all the time, generally with after-market radios or modifications to the audio system, so do you have an aftermarket radio or mod like that which could be forcing the amp to be constantly powered?

 

Hope these help a bit more diagnostics, post back on what you find.

Edited May 25, 2017 by andyb2000

[QinteQ]

Battery

 

Battery choice, like choosing a wife, provokes different opinions on what is beautiful. The issue however are simple. You should be looking for about 800CCA over 80aH, this is a physical size that will not fit the CRD battery tray, so get a big one and modify the tray, or get a smaller one and take your UK winter chances. There is a~n~other UK issue of lifestyle, its a use it or lose it condition. If like me you do 2000 miles per annum with two 15 minutes trips once a week you will regardless of battery size / cost never keep that battery charged, the BUS [over 7 or so days] at resting will use more than the 30 minutes the alternator was able to replace.

 

Different people have success with different batteries, I'm sure the UK users will come to your aid with their suggestions, particularly the Scottish contingent who have an even colder climate than I. For myself I originally had a Banner Uni Bull 690 over 70 and my replacement was a Bosch S5 Type 96 at 800 over 80. Best of luck.

 

Power seat fuse : are as stated droppers, as you have had your battery removed for 4 days the 'droppers' should re-set themselves via the BCM/IPM

 

Lifestyle : Two 15 minutes trips once a week.

 

The  higher  the  voltage  applied,  the  faster the battery will charge, charging at too  high a voltage WILL  damage  your  battery. A simple 100Ah open lead acid  battery and a 180A charger connected to the battery discharged to 50% :

 

- @ 50% full @ 13.2V current was 35A

- @ 50% full @ 14,8V current was 160A [improvement of 457%]

- @ 75% full @ 13.2V current was 1A

- @ 75% full @ 14.8V current was 60A [improvement of 6000%]

 

Its not linear so :

 

- two 15 minute periods @ 13.2V is 2 x 15 minute @ 21Ah, compared to ;

- two 15 minute periods @ 14.4V is 2 x 15 minute @ 60Ah, is an improvement  of  about  300%

 

The temperature sensor under the battery will drop [ temperature compensator's on modern alternators will compensate] the voltage output from about 14.0V to about 13.2V. The problem I have with this is the engine compartment soon reaches temp and the battery assumes its fully charged.

 

- 13.20 volts is about what you would expect from [split diode - does not apply to Voyagers, and] this vehicle with a temp sensor & alternator compensator

- 14.00 volts  is about what you would expect from any typical alternator without a vehicle temp sensor & alternator compensator

- 14.40 volts is what you would expect from a sealed lead acid to prevent [they tend to gas @ 50ºC] excessive gassing

- 14.80 volts is what you can risk pushing it to with an open lead acid to prevent damage to other equipment connected to the battery at the same time

 

NOTE01 : There are IOD 7 functions that are 'live' when you think your car and battery are asleep, they pull a combined 0.025 ampere draw. I used a Maplins cheepo solar panel which cost me £15 at the time, and I have never been unable to start the car since. They are :

 

• Electrical items left on.

• Faulty or improperly adjusted switches.

• Faulty or shorted electronic modules and components.

• An internally shorted generator.

• Intermittent shorts in the wiring

Remote key fob

Radio

Heater blower

Folding mirrors

Central locks

Interior lights when the key is in the ignition

 

 

IGNITION-OFF DRAW TEST - reproduced from the workshop manual - According to Chrysler's own workshop manual :

 

Allow twenty minutes for the IOD to stabilize and observe the multi-meter reading. The low-amper- age IOD should not exceed twenty-five milliamperes (0.025 ampere). If the current draw exceeds twenty-five milliamperes, isolate each circuit using the fuse and circuit breaker remove-and-replace process in Step 4. The multi-meter reading will drop to within the acceptable limit when the source of the excessive current draw is disconnected. Repair this circuit as required; whether a wiring short, incorrect switch adjustment, or a component failure is at fault

The term Ignition-Off Draw (IOD) identifies a normal condition where power is being drained from the battery with the ignition switch in the Off position. A normal vehicle electrical system will draw from fifteen to twenty five milliamperes (0.015 to 0.025 ampere) with the ignition switch in the Off position, and all non-ignition controlled circuits in proper working order. Up to twenty-five milliamperes are needed to enable the memory functions for the Powertrain Control Module (PCM), digital clock, electronically tuned radio, and other modules which may vary with the vehicle equipment. A vehicle that has not been operated for approximately twenty one days, may discharge the battery to an inadequate level. When a vehicle will not be used for twenty one days or more (stored), remove the IOD fuse from the Integrated Power Module (IPM). This will reduce battery discharging.

 

BatteryMOD

 

I like many of us was an early adopter of AGM, most of us by now will be AGM. It occurs to me that the safe μF we chose for the buttonMOD could be changed to give closer to 14.4V than the 14.1 I was getting. I went 13.9 to 14.1 it would be nice to have that extra .3V, it would make a hell of a difference on a big 80aH even over such a short charging time frame as 15 minutes.

 

I was thinking 22K Ω @ 1/2 watt would be a goodish guesstimate for keeping it under the 14.6[ish] although I'm sure it would be safe a little higher. I'll be happy if I can get to the extra .3's @ 14.4 * Tested .... smack on 14.4-6 winter and 14+ summer over a 6 month period steady across the REV range. This will better recover the winter loss more quickly. Of course in the summer the ALT output will be limited by the lower battery replenishment needs Well pleased !

[legonsuk]

How do you do the button mod ?????? 

[QinteQ]

Original thread from 2015 here, the #7 Leedsman original is here. I did a further mod and changed the the 33K Ω @ 1/2 watt to 22K Ω @ 1/2 watt keeps it under the 4.6[ish] [although I'm sure it would be safe a little higher]. I did get the extra .3's @ 14.4+ I was aiming for. This will better recover the winter loss more quickly. Of course in the summer the ALT output will be limited by the lower battery replenishment needs. That thread is here and I can confirm that I had 14.5-6V over the winter and its now an average of 14.3-4V summer.

[mikebh8]

Hi, just a thought, from your post indicates that you probably recently bought it..."i am beginning to think it was a bad idea buying a chrysler"

It happen to me when I first bought one.

Please see pictures attached to understand what I'm about to say:

for some reason Chrysler added an option on the ignition where it gives the driver the opportunity to extract the key with the engine running...sometimes is good but when it comes to turn off the engine and lock the car...if not enough attention is given to in what position the key was when removed, the second ACC is still on.

Where the red circle is it used to be a push button which will block or unblock the key to go to zero position.

Where the orange line is, is there where the key should be so all the electrics are off.

the blue line to the left of the orange one it keeps the car "alive", and with the key on the right of the orange line it lets the driver remove the key while engine on.

I removed mine (on both, the previous one and the current one) and never had problems since... Also, when the key removed and the driver door is opened, if you hear a buzz it means the ignition is still "on", even if the key is not in.

 

 

Hope it helped.

Edited June 7, 2017 by mikebh8

[Semmysonic]

I've not heard of that before, definitely can't remove the key on mine.

[bignev]

I can on one of our three, but the others only come out where the orange line is.

[bignev]

I can on one of our three, but the others only come out where the orange line is. But it caused problems when we first got it till I figured out all the way back was wrong and left lots of stuff live.

[mikebh8]

Same happened to me, to my brother in law until he asked me about it and two friends that have GVs like this. I still couldn't find the reason why would they put that option there...

[bignev]

Yeah on that car I just put it down the a very worn ignition barrel as the key comes out anywhere! It doesn't have a hole like in the picture or any button.

[legonsuk]

Hi, just a thought, from your post indicates that you probably recently bought it..."i am beginning to think it was a bad idea buying a chrysler"

It happen to me when I first bought one.

Please see pictures attached to understand what I'm about to say:

for some reason Chrysler added an option on the ignition where it gives the driver the opportunity to extract the key with the engine running...sometimes is good but when it comes to turn off the engine and lock the car...if not enough attention is given to in what position the key was when removed, the second ACC is still on.

Where the red circle is it used to be a push button which will block or unblock the key to go to zero position.

Where the orange line is, is there where the key should be so all the electrics are off.

the blue line to the left of the orange one it keeps the car "alive", and with the key on the right of the orange line it lets the driver remove the key while engine on.

I removed mine (on both, the previous one and the current one) and never had problems since... Also, when the key removed and the driver door is opened, if you hear a buzz it means the ignition is still "on", even if the key is not in.

 

 

Hope it helped.

yes i have got the button so if i take it out it might sort the drain out is it hard to remove.

Edited June 11, 2017 by legonsuk

[mikebh8]

To be removed, the ignition barrel needs to come out, the bit that you want to take out is held by few small screws and a spring. You need a set of 6 pin screwdrivers and few other tools like a set of pliers. If you're not far from BH postcode I'm happy to help but you have to come to my place.

[QinteQ]

Original post  :Posted 25 May 2017 - 09:26 PM

 

Battery

 

Battery choice, like choosing a wife, provokes different opinions on what is beautiful. The issue however are simple. You should be looking for about 800CCA over 80aH, this is a physical size that will not fit the CRD battery tray, so get a big one and modify the tray, or get a smaller one and take your UK winter chances. There is a~n~other UK issue of lifestyle, its a use it or lose it condition. If like me you do 2000 miles per annum with two 15 minutes trips once a week you will regardless of battery size / cost never keep that battery charged, the BUS [over 7 or so days] at resting will use more than the 30 minutes the alternator was able to replace.

 

Different people have success with different batteries, I'm sure the UK users will come to your aid with their suggestions, particularly the Scottish contingent who have an even colder climate than I. For myself I originally had a Banner Uni Bull 690 over 70 and my replacement was a Bosch S5 Type 96 at 800 over 80. Best of luck.

 

Power seat fuse : are as stated droppers, as you have had your battery removed for 4 days the 'droppers' should re-set themselves via the BCM/IPM

 

Update : Comment on Lifestyle ; Two 15 minutes trips once a week. Here is my personal issue regardless of battery condition at the start of winter I'm always going to run out of battery before the warm weather comes. The average off-draw [see below] of 0.025 amperes always means my personal CCA bank will be empty within six months. I've tried cheap and very expensive German solar and it does not work. I have a brand new spare C6 800/80 fully charged sitting underneath this [best money you will ever spend/waste] this 9 stage charger. I'm lucky enough to have a BA9 to test batteries and can tell you for a fact that no new battery is anywhere 1/2 full when you buy it, is often already approaching its pension and at its half life age when you buy it that's why the stopped putting the DOM date on them, add to our woes EURO legislation stuffing % recycled under-par non-virgin lead into the plates and little surprise then they appear to be less good now than they once were, so best you can do is (1) charge properly (2) test the actual CCA properly and (3) be prepared to bite the bullet and change every Sept to a fully winter ready 80/800. Desperate for a @get out of jail NOW card,, this will go straight in with no moddin. Cant afford the red-top get this Lion. Best of luck.

 

The  higher  the  voltage  applied,  the  faster the battery will charge, charging at too  high a voltage WILL  damage  your  battery. A simple 100Ah open lead acid  battery and a 180A charger connected to the battery discharged to 50% :

 

- @ 50% full @ 13.2V current was 35A

- @ 50% full @ 14,8V current was 160A [improvement of 457%]

- @ 75% full @ 13.2V current was 1A

- @ 75% full @ 14.8V current was 60A [improvement of 6000%]

 

Its not linear so :

 

- two 15 minute periods @ 13.2V is 2 x 15 minute @ 21Ah, compared to ;

- two 15 minute periods @ 14.4V is 2 x 15 minute @ 60Ah, is an improvement  of  about  300%

 

The temperature sensor under the battery will drop [ temperature compensator's on modern alternators will compensate] the voltage output from about 14.0V to about 13.2V. The problem I have with this is the engine compartment soon reaches temp and the battery assumes its fully charged.

 

- 13.20 volts is about what you would expect from [split diode - does not apply to Voyagers, and] this vehicle with a temp sensor & alternator compensator

- 14.00 volts  is about what you would expect from any typical alternator without a vehicle temp sensor & alternator compensator

- 14.40 volts is what you would expect from a sealed lead acid to prevent [they tend to gas @ 50ºC] excessive gassing

- 14.80 volts is what you can risk pushing it to with an open lead acid to prevent damage to other equipment connected to the battery at the same time

 

NOTE01 : There are IOD 7 functions that are 'live' when you think your car and battery are asleep, they pull a combined 0.025 ampere draw. I used a Maplins cheepo solar panel which cost me £15 at the time, and I have never been unable to start the car since. They are :

 

• Electrical items left on.

• Faulty or improperly adjusted switches.

• Faulty or shorted electronic modules and components.

• An internally shorted generator.

• Intermittent shorts in the wiring

Remote key fob

Radio

Heater blower

Folding mirrors

Central locks

Interior lights when the key is in the ignition

 

 

IGNITION-OFF DRAW TEST - reproduced from the workshop manual - According to Chrysler's own workshop manual :

 

Allow twenty minutes for the IOD to stabilize and observe the multi-meter reading. The low-amper- age IOD should not exceed twenty-five milliamperes (0.025 ampere). If the current draw exceeds twenty-five milliamperes, isolate each circuit using the fuse and circuit breaker remove-and-replace process in Step 4. The multi-meter reading will drop to within the acceptable limit when the source of the excessive current draw is disconnected. Repair this circuit as required; whether a wiring short, incorrect switch adjustment, or a component failure is at fault

The term Ignition-Off Draw (IOD) identifies a normal condition where power is being drained from the battery with the ignition switch in the Off position. A normal vehicle electrical system will draw from fifteen to twenty five milliamperes (0.015 to 0.025 ampere) with the ignition switch in the Off position, and all non-ignition controlled circuits in proper working order. Up to twenty-five milliamperes are needed to enable the memory functions for the Powertrain Control Module (PCM), digital clock, electronically tuned radio, and other modules which may vary with the vehicle equipment. A vehicle that has not been operated for approximately twenty one days, may discharge the battery to an inadequate level. When a vehicle will not be used for twenty one days or more (stored), remove the IOD fuse from the Integrated Power Module (IPM). This will reduce battery discharging.

 

BatteryMOD

 

I like many of us was an early adopter of AGM, most of us by now will be AGM. It occurs to me that the safe μF we chose for the buttonMOD could be changed to give closer to 14.4V than the 14.1 I was getting. I went 13.9 to 14.1 it would be nice to have that extra .3V, it would make a hell of a difference on a big 80aH even over such a short charging time frame as 15 minutes.

 

I was thinking 22K Ω @ 1/2 watt would be a goodish guesstimate for keeping it under the 14.6[ish] although I'm sure it would be safe a little higher. I'll be happy if I can get to the extra .3's @ 14.4 * Tested .... smack on 14.4-6 winter and 14+ summer over a 6 month period steady across the REV range. This will better recover the winter loss more quickly. Of course in the summer the ALT output will be limited by the lower battery replenishment needs Well pleased !

 

Update : Changed the  22K Ω @ 1/2 watt for  33K Ω @ 1/2 watt and get a consistent 15+ summer and 14+ winter.