Issue With Rb3 Radio Nav System

[Liam89]

Hi, every time the ignition is turned off and on my radio looses all its settings. It's really starting to frustrate me but can't find a solution. I don't have the radio code either. It isn't one which has memory seats which I have read about online. Any ideas?

[Semmysonic]

Mine used to do that, would lose any previous set stations and change frequency, seems to have stopped doing it since I changed the battery. It wasn't dead but struggled to start if the doors were left open too long or the electric doors used etc.

Might be worth starting there

[Liam89]

I would change it but worried as I don't have the code. The previous owners said it did it after they had it replaced but I think the current battery Says 450wh, 50Ah, 750A

[andyb2000]

Hi,

 

Few things this can be, so firstly a few specifics:

Factory fit RB3? Have you ever had to put the code back into it? I've not found anyone that's had to do this on their 4th gen, so I'd not be too worried about that element.

Was/Has there been an aftermarket stereo in at some point, car phone kit or any other add-on? If so then it's most likely it's been re-wired back to stock incorrectly. So has this only just started happening or has it been since you got the car? Take the head unit out (Fairly easy instructions, do a quick google, I have done this on my blog quite a few times too) and look at the wiring at the back, if wires have been cut, joined, taped together, etc, then chances are that's what has happened.

 

Easy check. When you have had engine running, turn on radio. Turn ignition off and take key out (DO NOT OPEN ANY DOOR!) is the radio still on? If it went off immediately on turning the key, then it's the two wires into the radio are swapped (One is constant power and supplies backup memory storage, etc, the other is ignition switched. If these are swapped you'll get immediate radio off behaviour and lost settings).

If the radio stays on at key remove, then it's down to the memory storage.

You mention you don't have memory seats or memory keyfobs on yours. Try this. Don't lock or unlock the car with the remote keyfob. Use the key a couple of times and see if there is any effect on the radio memory. This will confirm if it's actually the BCM causing the radio station memory to be lost, or if it's just the radio.

 

Hopefully these pointers might help track it down for you. Post back and see if we can help out :-)

[QinteQ]

Usually a winter problem and usually battery related. As AndyB says 'radio code' is not usually an issue but then we have no idea at all what kind of car and year you have.

[Liam89]

Hi guys thank you so much for the replies. I've only had the car a few days. As far as I'm aware it's from factory that way. It's an 08 so last of the gen4 I'm guessing as its not the newer box shape. I'll give the key way ago as I'm only using the fobs at the moment.

[Liam89]

I've found that if I just turn off the ignition and put the key back in it still doesn't keep the stations or any changes. I have had to jump start it as the day after i got the car the gauges did the sweep all the way around. Halfords did a battery check but I'm still wondering if it might need a new one even though they say it was done last year and it's never saves it's presets since

[Semmysonic]

I wouldn't trust Halfords to clean my car let alone check anything, sounds like your battery is on its last legs

[Liam89]

If that's all it is then I would be very happy lol. I think I need a cam shaft sensor too but booking it for a big service this week what a beautiful car they are though. So comfy!

[QinteQ]

I wouldn't trust Halfords to clean my car let alone check anything, sounds like your battery is on its last legs

My early and only experience of Halfords :

 

Rang first to check stock, then went to Halfords, ordered their own recommended [put your registration in]  5 year warranted battery the HSB096 @ £129:99 while the nice clepto-cashier lady was emptying my plastic I flicked up the terminal covers to find the Terminals were the wrong way [o O - they should be - O o]  round.

 

 http://i40.tinypic.com/1y8j2r.gif

 

A 12 year old expert fully trained and certificated male assistant wiped the dribble from his nose and stormed out to my MOTA in the rain which was splattering against his thin bony shoulders making a mess of his over white freshly ironed by his Mother .. .. shirt, all the time asserting in a very authoritative way - why I way wrong and why it could not possibly be their 'fittings dBase', his matchstick like thin arms finally managed to lift the bonnet without breaking any of his arms only to find the common standard terminals.

 

I did try to help his embarrassment, honest I did, I even offered him one of my Wurthers Originals and assured him we all make mistakes .. .. its all part of life's long learning .. .. but I still want my £230 snots back and I want them now. So now I'm back to where I started, I never in my life thought buying a correct 'soddin battery would be so much trouble.

 

So I start the search again - this companies dBase correctly identifies the MOTA even listing the correct colour of my car etc and suggests 2 - both in the S range both will do the job , the;

 

S4010 / 12V, capacity 80Ah, cold test current 740A / £72:95 - 5 year warranty - free delivery

S5010 / 12V, capacity 85Ah, cold test current 800A / £87:50  - 5 year warranty - free delivery

 

My one remaining indecision is that though they list 315mm long, 175mm wide, 175mm high, the 315mm is about 27mm / 1.06 inches more than my current battery which will make the 175mm installed height of the battery a full inch closer to the sound deadening material on the underside of the bonnet [radiator side].

 

Two Three Four Points

 

.1. - unless someone wants to convince me before Monday that it wont fit, or the terminals are arras first I'll buy the bigger one

 

.2. - why waste all these letters of the alphabet ?, because there is an issue getting an 85/800 in the UK  to fit a Voyager, and others following me might benefit from a thread that proves you don't have to go for a lesser capacity paying a lot - when you can have the full 85/800 for relatively little compared to the 175/175/278 size.

 

.3. - if I'm wrong tell me quick !!!! because although this Forum's users will benefit from my mistake, I'll be £88 Quid down the chute !

 

.4. - don't believe what these 'enter your registration' dataBASE's tell you .. .. they are as good as the wo/man entering the DATA and I've found three tonight alone that were wrong, and one [in hope more that expectation] that's correct.

 

.5. - don't believe anything - not one word that Halfords tell you, they consult a dBase that is wrong in the first place, a battery that fits under the bonnet is not the same as a battery that will start your car !

______________________

 

NOTE : the above was written years ago, and while I still think Halfords are rubbish batteries and prices have changed a lot in the last several years.

[Liam89]

I was wondering for a battery test, if I were to hook up another battery to it from my Zafira like I was jump starting it, would there be any risks in doing that to see if the radio saves anything that time?

[QinteQ]

It does not lose its code, it loses what Chrysler call 'customer preferences'. Depends on the spec of your car but the IOD [ignition off draw] 'factory-fuse' variously controls : 

 

Remote key fob 

Radio 

Heater blower 

Folding mirrors 

Central locks 

Interior lights etc

 

There are different for your Radio 4 preference, your 6'6" size seat setting and you wing mirrors compared to your 5'2" daughter listening to her preferred tuneless screeching young music. Instantly switch-able between you and you daughter on your drivers door  'customer preferences'. Chrysler have the IOD fuse [see below]

 

http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/MO/molurch/2014-01-08_040853_iod.png

 

'shipping', here the items listed above are are taken from the battery supply 15 minutes after the fuse is pulled ! Jumper leads or a 'starter pack' are not an answe to your question. You need to know if your battery is boogarred. Get your battery CCA properly tested with one of these and buy a new one if you need one. You need to know if its a new battery or any other issue before you start throwing money at it. A battery older than 3 years with a working CCA of less than 700 is going to give you a miserable winter my friend. Best of luck.

[Liam89]

Ok so basically get the battery checked by someone other than halfords. Is there anything else it could be if the battery is good?

[QinteQ]

Ok so basically get the battery checked by someone other than halfords. Is there anything else it could be if the battery is good?

You can go anywhere the test is free. Truth is they all use these totally useless testers. What you need to know is what is your battery capable of now, those cheepo testers don't tell you what you want to know, Any battery older than 3 years is suspect, Anything less than an 096 on these diesel cars is suspect. Can't you just borrow a known to be good high CCA battery for a couple of days to use as a real world test ?

Edited June 27, 2016 by QinteQ

[Liam89]

I don't think there is anyone round here I know with a big battery. This is the battery check from halfords on a yuasa battery checker.

[QinteQ]

Your battery according to the pic above reads 12.4a it should if healthy be 13.2 volts to 13.8 volts if its been 'off charge' for about 1 hour. The 12.4v reading says your battery is only 75% [relatively ] charged.

 

12.6 V 100% 12.4 V 75% 12.2 V 50% 12.1 V 25% Less than 12 volts Dead

 

I think you can see from the figures above that your battery is struggling even with a warm engine just finished charging, that its under performing. There can be lots of reasons that your radio looses its preset stations and lots of other reasons a battery does not hold its charge. Given what you have said and that I have not seen your car or tested anything everyone's start point should be to eliminate the battery as a 1st check. Best of luck.

[mikes22]

Hi

 

i have same problem with my 4th gen yes frustrating !! lose memory seat settings too had new battery no change would like to find answer 

 

Air bag light also common problem cant find cure for mine always on tried forum suggestions no cure but love the motor 2nd one

 

mike 

[QinteQ]

Air bag light can often be cured with 5 fingered diagnostics, grab wires with fingers and shake gently usually bad connections under the driver seat where its continually moved up-down and fore-aft, plug & unplug the connections to clean them  - make a good connection. If Liam89 lives anywhere near Teesside I'll check his battery and his BCM reads and lend him a known good battery for a week FOC, but he will have to 'make it fit'. A 750A battery should be a good one, check fusebox for bad connections / verdigris etc. Check earth its endless. Eliminate the battery first.

 

AndyB asked if it was a RB3 - no answer

AndyB asked if it was a factory fit radio - no answer

gauges did the sweep is a give away

radio looses all its settings is a give away

 

I'm amazed a 2.8 starts even in the summer .. .. 

[Liam89]

I'm way down in Kent but thanks for the offer. It is an RB3 and as far as I'm aware a factory fit as it has the DVD screen on the rails, and 6 cd changer.

[andyb2000]

OK,

As well as battery issues there may be more going on here. Though if you're having gauge sweep then it's on the way and it WILL fail or cause tough start problems in worse weather. I changed my battery and no dash sweeps at all now.

 

Anyway, I've had at least 2 people come to be with this problem now on their GV factory fit radio and both times it was the same fault.

Somebody in the past had put in an after-market stereo, or a bluetooth hands free kit, and when they sold the car, put the stock radio back in, or remote the phone kit and didn't bother to pay attention to the wiring they put back in.

 

 

I've found that if I just turn off the ignition and put the key back in it still doesn't keep the stations or any changes.

 

 

OK, that eliminates the BCM itself losing the settings due to the memory seat/radio/functions that QinteQ mentions (related to the IOD fuse).

 

So, this is the key question:

After driving home. When you get to your driveway. Turn the key OFF and take it out. DO NOT open a door and DO NOT re-insert the key Is the radio still on?

 

These cars have a timer where when you remove key it will leave the radio on for a couple of minutes OR until a door is opened. If the wiring harness for the radio has been mixed up by an after market fitter or similar the two power and ignition wires often get swapped by mistake and so the radio will turn off the moment the key is turned to the off position.

 

See what you get on that one, if it goes off immediately then it's the wiring behind the radio at fault, so take the dashboard facia apart and take a look at the wiring connector into the back of the radio, my guess is you'll see some black electricians tape or some re-wired connections back there as tell-tale signs.

 

Don't forget to post back on what you test and observe as it helps us help you diagnose and also helps others in the future.

[andyb2000]

By the way mikes22, create a new post on your airbag problem, this has come up many times (I've had it and solved it with the kind help of QinteQ) and there are many solutions and tests you can do as QinteQ says to solve, but better handled in a separate topic to this one.

[Liam89]

Yes it stays on until I open a door

[Liam89]

So I think I need a new battery. What's the best one to go for as the car struggled to start this morning

[Semmysonic]

This is the one I went for and haven't had any problems yet

[andyb2000]

Right, it staying on until the door is opened eliminates a faulty wiring harness, incorrect connections and a problem with the ignition feed to the radio, it also proves the radio is receiving voltage after ignition power is removed.

So yes, that's sounding more like battery problem (Although, after a long-ish journey, 20 minutes plus after switching off, go back in after a minute or two, is the radio memory wiped straight away?).

 

Again, if you get dash sweep every time you get in to start up, you need battery replacement.

I went for 096R Enduroline Car Battery 74Ah 690CCA direct from Tayna Batteries (www.tayna.co.uk) as it was the best price I could get (£68 inc delivery).

[QinteQ]

Ta ∀ndy Brown.

 

Exide in my opinion are the worlds best high street maker for domestics, indeed they make Merc & BMW OEM branded batteries along with my preferred Varta F21 which is 80aH and 800CCA. The 082 Exide is 74aH and 680CCA when brand new. ∀ndy Brown is right, once the battery is eliminated the radio-bodge is always the next level in the menu of diagnostics. Most decent pro diagnostics can read most of the radio without dismantling anything, indeed there's a whole section in the scanners for this including manufacturers 'U' codes, those without access are going to have to go old school and a multimeter. The Yuasa on Liam89's car is an excellent battery but its knackkered and undercharging almost always down to sulphated plates, low voltage as we all know can play havoc with onboard electronics, and the fuel injection and ignition systems. I always understood there were 2 general rules :

 

- (1) the alternator output should be a minimum of 1/4 of the battery aH, for continuous short runs however - charging the alternator output would need to be 150%[ish] of maximum load

 

- (2) the 1 to 25 ratio [1 horsepower energy from the engine to make 25 peak alternator amps energy]

 

This old Yorkshire-man's view on deep cycle wet-flooded needs to be related to newer tech. New tech such as AGM's and spirals can 'soak up' to 40% their available capacities rather than the 25% of the older tech. And there we have the nub of it .. .. this CRD car designed for spark not compression it has a diesel engine with a petrol standard battery [and baby-size battery tray] which to me appears to be not fit for purpose in that first place, I question whether the alternator and cabling [safety] was upgraded for a diesel spec, subsequent advances in tech leading to recommendations for spiral and AGM fall down because the alternator output now no longer reflects the optimal ratio between alternator and battery capacity. To truly benefit from an AGM or Spiral the alternator output needs to be increased to facilitate the 40% that these battery types are capable of, instead we continue blindly with an alternator output incapable of charging a modern battery unless the car is run daily and for a long run.

 

My guess is the same for Liam89 as it alway is with all post CAN Mk 3 & 4 Voyagers. Battery, then (2) alternator output check, then (3) radio in that order.