TinTent

So Just an update.... Thanks to RichardM i was able to test the individual sensors and wiring with more detail on resistences etc. Now the most suspect item is the PCM - Power Train Control Module or ECU. I have learned that this is in harmony through the can bus with the immobiliser. So I am now in the area of trying to test or clone the ECU. The unit was sent to one well established company who could not test it. So, It is with another who do cloning by transferring the eprom chip to a doner ECU. That's the stage I am at at the moment, however upon dismantling the ecu, the main circuit board is covered in a jelly structure that is difficult to remove and see through. They dont know quite where this chip is so it is taking a bit of time. If anyone has had experience of cloning and where the chip is would be helpful. If this does not work I think I may have to get a whole set of ECU's and immobiliser and keys from a dismantler. It would appear that if this ECU was a bosch, they are relatively easy to clone and electronically disable the immobiliser. Seems I am down a rabbit hole and may not get back out !!

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So, I noted a difference of the Brown/White and Yellow/Grey pins on the blue connector. They both are grounded to earth. But, when I disconnect the downstream O2 sensor, The Brown/White connector is no longer earthed. So, I assumed a faulty O2 sensor. Got a new replacement, fitted and it is just the same.

Accidentaly posted before I had finished.... Ignition coil Connector 2 to pin 11 PCM= Ign Coil 1 Driver Ignition coil Connector 3 to pin 5 PCM= Speed Control On/Off Switch Sense Ignition coil Connector 4 to pin 2 PCM= Ign Coil 3 Driver So The three coil circuits all check out OK, but connector 3 seems to wander off. This pin connects to PCM pin5, Speed control Connector pin 1, Battery Earth connector terminal and the Brown/White wire and Yellow/Grey Wire on the Blue connector on the fuse board. I think that this is not quite right. I suspect the wiring loom may be at fault. What would help me is a wiring diagram of the engine wiring loom or at least the pin outs for the connectors to the fuse relay board, paricularly the Blue connector (attached). I dont think the Brown/White and Yellow/Grey wires should be connected together unless they are earth wires for other sensors/relays. A wiring diagram would help me look in the appropriate place. Any help or suggestions would be most welcome. It's cold up here and I can only last for an hour or so before I have to come back in for warmth. (:>) Many Thanks.

So I have learned a bit more. I have found the pin outs for the two PCM Plugs. I have attached for future reference. The fuse relay board has been removed and I am left with the wiring loom connector ends, PCM connector ends and have started to disconnect engine sensors and testing continuity from the PCM plugs to the individual plugs of engine sensors. I had originally suspected problems with the ignition coil connections. I have confirmed the following: Ignition coil connector 1 to PIn3 PCM=Ign Coil 2 Driver. Voyager Mk4 PCM Pin Connector PIn Outs.docx

So, I learned that the ignition coil has three coils after looking at the workshop manual. The connector has 4 pins. So I figured that there must be one supply and three control wires for this circuit. Two of them are tied to 12V on the fuse board, so something is not right I think. I disconnected the two 40 pin plugs to the PCM. I chose the black and white wire/Pin 2 on the ignition coil plug and it has about 0.1 ohm on pin 6 and about 11 ohms on each of pins,7,8,10,13,14,15. So I might be measuring the coils on relays. My Workshop manual does not have wiring diagrams for the Ignition Coil or PCM and Fuse/relay board. I am going to search for these and continue to investigate.

Hi Everyone, I am hoping someone can help me with the next step in determining the cause of my Chrysler Voyager 3.3L petrol 2002 EGA engine. At the moment the car cranks but does not start, not even a splutter. I will describe the process I have gone through so far in trying to solve this problem. Initially the car would cut out suddenly like a switch then after the engine was left for about an hour or so it would start OK. This has happened about 6 or 7 times and the last few were predictable. From a cold start engine would run for about 10 minutes then cut out. Now it wont start at all. On the first few occasions it would throw up a P0340 - CMP sensor code. So, I undertook the following in order and after each instance no change:- Cleaned and remade earth connections to engine and under battery tray. Replaced Camshaft Position Sensor (CMP) Checked operation of ASD (Auto Shutdown Relay) and fuse Replaced Crankshaft Position Sensor (CKP) [This was a problem as it dissintegrated and had to be drilled out] Removed two 40 pin PCM connections and fuse and relay box connections to check wireloom continuity. CMP left pin to pin 33 PCM=0.1 ohm CMP centre pin to pin 11 PCM=0.3 ohm (Was 5 ohm but patched new wire to wiring loom) CMP right pin to pin 44 PCM=0.2 ohm CKP left pin to pin 32 PCM=0.1 ohm CKP centre pin to pin 11 PCM=0.1 ohm CKP right pin to pin 44 PCM=0.1 ohm Ignition Coil left pin to pin 3 PCM=0.2 ohm Ignition Coil centre pins are both the same and connected to Blue connector on Fuse Relay board pin 30 on ASD relay =0.2 ohm Ignition Coil right to pin 2 PCM=0.1 ohm So this seemed to assure me that the CMP and CKP connections which the PCM uses to activate the ASD relay are fine. I then removed the ASD Relay and placed a jumper wire between pins 30 and 87 which I believe will force supply to Ignition coil, injectors and fuel pump. Still no start and all confirmed with no spark at spark plug. Replaced Ignition coil with new. - Still no spark. Immobiliser light is Off . Used both keys to try and start. So with all of this I am now thinking it might be the PCM ECU. I had read that generally pre 2004 PCM's can be just swapped without re-programming. So got a second user one without keys or transponder. Fitted this but as perhaps expected the immobiliser light activates and will not clear. So I have exhausted what I believe I can do on my own. I am reaching out to anyone who perhaps can spot someting I have missed or if my conclusions are OK, advice on what the next step might be would be appreciated. For Example, Is it possible to test PCM. Can you swap Eproms? I probably think that sending the PCM away for testing or reprogramming is perhaps called for. Looking forward to some advice from anyone with experience in this area. Cheers...

Thanks for you comments guys. The sparkplug issue got me thinking.This was the first thing I changed over a year ago when the problem first started. So 6 new NGK iridium plugs have been fitted. I also fitted a second user temperature sender unit as well. The idle has improved and while the body doesn't shake any more, there is still the odd miss that you can feel with your hand at the exhaust. So not totally fixed, but a little better. I am still keen to understand the $17 fail on the Launch Scanner Live Data feed. I seem to recall seeing something about the downstream sensor on a town and country forum related to this. I also recall that unlike some other manufacturers, Chrysler uses both o2 sensors to control the fuel injection, rather than the upstream one. So contemplating checking that I have the correct O2 Sensors etc and perhaps getting a downstream sensor. Also, to my knowledge the catalytic converter has never been changed in its 15 year, 100k life. So may look into this, although the cost might be prohibitive, unless someone has noticed any change in the running of an engine after one has been changed. Cheers...

Oh, Forgot to add that I have replaced the injectors and rail with second user parts and fitted new o-ring seals.!!

Hi, I am having trouble identifying a problem with my 2003 Grand Voyager 3.3 Petrol Auto (EGA engine). Ever since an overheated engine caused a head gasket to blow 2 years ago - (Heads removed, skimmed and replaced). The symptoms I have are an occasional rough idle when stationary. It is just slightly annoying and tends to happen when you stop in traffic with the transmission in Drive.It used to be that it happened about 30% of the time when stopped, but now it is nearly 90% of the time. Turning off the A/C and shifting to Neutral alleviates the slight body shake caused by the rough idle. Once the vehicle is moving though everything is fine, good acceleration, smooth, normal fuel consumption etc. I get no OBD error codes. When idling and hot, with a hand over the exhast, you can feel the occasional miss from the rough idle. When engine is cold, idle is OK I have taken most of the steps that I would consider normal to fix a rough idle which would focus on things that cause a bad burn at idle. So, I have replaced (with new) Spark Plugs, HT Leads, Coil Pack, IAT Sensor, MAP Sensor, CMP Sensor, PCV Valve, Upstream and Downstream O2 Sensors. I have also replaced the upper intake manifold, resealed lower intake manifold, changed throttle body with Idle Air control valve and throttle position sensor with second user replacement parts. I have also tried gas testing the air intake areas with no change in engine idle. I have clamped/isolated the EVAP cannister and Crankcase vent hoses etc and checked their continuity. I have checked all cylinder compressions and although they vary they are within the manuals range of upper and lower. Nothing changes the idle symptoms. I have a Launch CR123, to analyse the PCM. I can see the switching of the Upstream Sensor, Downstream seems to stay in the middle. The O2 test which is an option on the analyser does not work on the vehicle. There is an option with the scanner to check live data streams. These all check out OK ie pass, except $17 live data stream which registers a fail. I cannot find anything that tells me what this is. I would be grateful if anyone has any info on the $17 data stream or anything else that could be suggested to help me stop this rough idle. My next steps are to replace the lower intake manifold, change the o2 sensors again, replace the cat. I have assumed that all the new parts I have are OK but am thinking they may not be. I am beginning to run out of ideas and would welcome some thoughtful assistance. Many Thanks...