Thanks for your help I think I might go for the F18 and keep my old battery on trickle charge once I have had a go at the 7 stage charging that is. I know what you mean about not believing some people cos since that day my battery went flat and had it jump started it's been OK ever since. Even after saying that I still think it would put my mind at rest if I got the F18 and kept my ep450 as a back up like you do,better safe then sorry and I won't have to wait ages for the man in his orange van to turn up. My next job is glow plugs cos going through the FSH they have never been changed I have heard they can be a bit of a pig to get out and I should soak them with wd40 before I even try to get the old ones out. At least the weather is getting better cos of the old disability I can't do much on my GV when it's too cold or wet.